[Info-vax] IPSec - Dear God in heaven NO!

[Bill Gunshannon]

In article <49F11D7F.C8E9FD5D at spam.comcast.net>,
	David J Dachtera <djesys.no at spam.comcast.net> writes:
> "Richard B. Gilbert" wrote:
>> 
>> David J Dachtera wrote:
>> > Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> >> David J Dachtera wrote:
>> >>> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> >>>> JF Mezei wrote:
>> >>>>> It is not polite to ask this question. HP has strict policies imposed on
>> >>>>> employees with regards to what they can or cannot say.
>> >>>> Most big companies has explicit or implicit rules about
>> >>>> what employees can say about the company - at least about
>> >>>> business.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> For good reasons. Doing so could cause lots of legal
>> >>>> problems.
>> >>> ...or could cause bad (or no) marketing to be circumvented, and so could
>> >>> save the vendor from their own mistakes.
>> >> I don't think the "I decide what is best for the company so I follow
>> >> my own rules instead of the company rules" way is a good way to run
>> >> a company.
>> >
>> > Lambs to the slaughter, eh? ...or lemmings to the cliff? Hope you don't
>> > depend on your job for your livelihood if you trust your bosses that
>> > blindly.
>> >
>> >> I don't even think it would be good for VMS. Why would it be good to
>> >> have 10 HP employees going around and tell about all the great
>> >> plans they have for VMS and 10000 HP employees going around and
>> >> say that VMS is dead.
>> >
>> > Why?
>> >
>> > Well, let's see now - that should be a self answering question, but
>> > since it appears to have been missed, let's explore that.
>> >
>> > "plans for VMS"? Well, not sure where that came from, but as long as the
>> > plan includes promotion and continued maintainance, on-going income from
>> > support contracts is possible. One benefit (big plus for the
>> > share-holders, as well) among many.
>> >
>> > Actually, I think the reverse is a better reflection of what actually
>> > happened. A select group of HP folks went out to the major ISVs and
>> > preached IA64 and (not VMS). The ISVS read (not VMS) as "VMS is dead".
>> > So, in actuality, a select few went out to spread the word that "VMS is
>> > dead" while the VMS organization went about its everyday business
>> > supporting its customers, coding new features and bug fixes, and so on.
>> > (We know this from "testimony" provided by those same major ISVs. This
>> > is NOT "conspiracy theories", or anything else - it's witness from the
>> > field. I have the e-mails to prove it. I cannot publish them, of
>> > course.)
>> >
>> > There may only be 10 HP employees with enough sense to not "drink the
>> > kool-aid". Sad to think...
>> >
>> > D.J.D.
>> 
>> I'd find your argument more persuasive if not for the people pounding
>> the "VMS is dead!" drum since 1995 or so.
> 
> Well, since it's the VMS ISVs who are stating that this is the message
> they are getting from HP, I don't know how it can be made more
> convincing than that.
> 
> Within the past two years, VMS has lost:
> - The healthcare sector
> - The manufacturing sector (long before then, really)
> 
> ...and is currently in the final stages of losing:
> - The U.S. financial sector

Let's not forget the Academic Sector.

> 
> VMS Engineering has, for all practical purposes, been disbanded. The
> former denizens have gone independent (Hoff, Hein, Guy, and more). All
> the "real" talent is gone. Yes, some of them took early retirement, and
> deservedly so. The point remains: they are gone from VMS Engr.
> 
> How much more "convincing" do you need? Do you need an "official" EOL
> announcement from HP (it'll be yesterday's news by then)?

People in this group have long demonstrated an inabilty to read "the
writting on the wall".  But then, how could they be expected to see
it with their heads buried so firmly in the sand.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
billg999 at cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>