[Info-vax] Request description of UFS for VMS person

[Richard B. Gilbert]

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> In article <ae561039-9f98-47a3-8f01-40b615214b1b at j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
> 	AEF <spamsink2001 at yahoo.com> writes:
>> On Apr 28, 10:17 am, "Bob Eager" <rd... at spamcop.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:37:23 UTC,
>>>
>>> koeh... at eisner.nospam.encompasserve.org (Bob Koehler) wrote:
>>>> In article <176uZD2KcidF-pn2-uSusmdQq9... at rikki.tavi.co.uk>, "Bob Eager" <rd... at spamcop.net> writes:
>>>>> I needed to use it a couple of times in the early days (33 years ago)
>>>>> but not since. My point in mentioning 'clri' is that someone here
>>>>> thought that functionality was essential on VMS to tidy up a borked
>>>>> directory, and (by implication) that 'Unix' was broken if it couldn't do
>>>>> it. In practice, it seems that VMS *needs* it and Unix doesn't.
>>>>    Nobody said UNIX was broken if it couldn't do it.  The question was
>>>>    why VMS has it, and an answer was given.  It was pointed out that
>>>>    other OS needed some way to recover from the same situation (a
>>>>    corrupt disctory), but no claim was made as to how that had to be
>>>>    implemented.
>>> Nobody said VMS was broken! The VMS file system has many advantages. I
>>> merely pointed out that ffs, at any rate, didn't seem to need a way to
>>> recover from that situation.
>>>
>> [My apologies if this appears twice. Google Groups told me it posted
>> successfully, but that was after a long wait during which I edited my
>> response in an external editor. I waited a while and it didn't show
>> up. So I'm posting this again.]
>>
>> The primary one I can think of is that everything on the volume really
>> *is* a file. Everything in the volume is "transparent". In Unix, at
>> least the ones I have access to I don't know how to dump the super
>> block or inodes. And on one of them I can't even dump a directory!
> 
> Again, it is not that Uix won't let it be done, it is that either you
> just don't know how or you lack the needed permissions.  If you really
> are interested in learning some of this I would suggest setting up a
> system or two of your won so you have root privs and play with it.
> 
>> So can you or anyone else tell us more of the advantages? How about
>> disadvantages?
> 
> Greatest advantage is functionality.  Unix doesn't tie my hands.
> Greatest disadvantage is functionality.  Unix doesn't tie my hands. 
> (which could be a real problem if I don't have a clue what I am doing.
> I have seen people open directories with vi.  :-)
> 

I have had newbies try to edit a directory with EDT!  Truely clueless 
about VMS.  I wouldn't want to try in Unix; it just MIGHT let me do it 
but I wouldn't know how to recover.  In VMS I've had to clean up such a 
mess; delete the corrupted directory and ANALYZE /DISK_STRUCTURE /REPAIR 
  DKA100:.  Then create a replacement for the corrupted directory and 
populate it with the files from [SYSLOST], inform the user just how he 
will DIE if he does it again.

<snip>