[Info-vax] Silver lining? (was: Re: 2009 VMS Bootcamp notice)

[Richard Maher]

Hi Bob,

> However, accusing OpenVMS Engineering of "hiding in an ivory tower"

Aahh I think I get it now, accusing some in engineering of being (I don't
recall using the word "hiding" but no matter) in an Ivory Tower is the
heinous crime that I'm accused of?

I'm guessing I have about as much chance as Saint Thomas Moore here but
anyway. . .

Please permit me to quote: -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivory_tower
"From the 19th century it has been, originally ironically, used to designate
a world or atmosphere where intellectuals engage in pursuits that are
disconnected from the practical concerns of everyday life. As such, it
usually has a pejorative connotation, denoting a willful disconnect from the
everyday world; esoteric, over-specialized, or even useless research; and
academic elitism, if not outright condescension by those inhabiting the
ivory tower. In American English usage it ordinarily denotes the academic
world of colleges and universities, particularly scholars of the
humanities."

Now you may feel your outrage is justified, while I may feel it is a valid
and constructive criticism of many in VMS engineering over the last 15
years; I'm happy to pass this one over to the jury. (Especially in the light
of DECForms, BridgeWorks, WSIT, DECadmire, ACMSxp, Forte, DCE/RPC, ONC/RPC,
SOAP/Toolkit and so on. . .and so on. . .and bloody so on!) And of course
the installed-base fleeing VMS in droves over the last 15 years was just
kismet and nothing to do with available technology/tools?

Anyway had enough of this crap, you and anyone else can do us all a favour
by hitting block-sender or kill-file me or whatever. If you seek to stop
others from hearing what I have to say then you know what you can do!

Regards Richard Maher

PS. If you agree with me about the Ivory Tower then you should get a load of
Rdb Engineering! Talk about "Please don't discuss the outside world". Why do
they never leave eh? (Oh yeah "commitment", "self-sacrifice", yeah that's
it.  ..)

"Bob Gezelter" <gezelter at rlgsc.com> wrote in message
news:f95fc445-4dfd-4b15-9460-4198c37e6c9f at f24g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
On Jan 7, 6:29 pm, "Richard Maher" <maher... at hotspamnotmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi JF,
>
> > invaluable! However, given today's economic status and realizing that
> > many companies are restricting travel including HP, we find ourselves in
> > a position of having to cancel this year's OpenVMS Boot Camp.
>
> On the up-side, just think about all that extra "free time" that the
HP/VMS
> speakers, presenters, and the attendees now have on their hands. Hey, is
> that a "CRON Scheduler for VMS" project I hear starting up? But who on
earth
> would be willing to head-up such a valuable and worthy project? Chance to
> give EDS a guernsey? Last time I looked they also had their
full-complement
> of navel-gazing wasters.
>
> > I wonder if HP might replace this with travelling presentations (if
> > people can't afford to travel, perhaps get Sue and a few enginers to
> > travel to people).
>
> Or they could just come out of their ivory towers and use the bloody
> internet like everyone else! Ooh and face unpleasantness and unsavoury
> characters; surely they'll bruise?
>
> Depemds whether you're trying to communicate with the user-base or control
> what the user-base has to say to your manager, I suppose.
>
> NDA my arse!
>
> Regards Richard Maher
>
> PS. If you got a copy of Sue's last "VMS Update" then I'd be curious to
see
> that as well.
>
> "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spam... at vaxination.ca> wrote in message
>
> news:0050a3de$0$4649$c3e8da3 at news.astraweb.com...
>
> > I got an email from Sue, and it hadn't been posted here yet. Hope Sue
> > won't mind my posting it here.
>
> > From: McQuaid, Ann
> > To: Skonetski, Susan
> > Cc: Herman, Wendy
> > Subject: boot camp
>
> > Hello Boot Camp Attendees,
>
> > As you know, the OpenVMS team prides itself on conducting the very
> > highest quality Technical Training in the industry, allowing for a
> > collaborative exchange of information and ideas with Customers and
> > Partners around the world. There is no doubt that the knowledge shared
> > and the personal connections made during these face-2-face events is
> > invaluable! However, given today's economic status and realizing that
> > many companies are restricting travel including HP, we find ourselves in
> > a position of having to cancel this year's OpenVMS Boot Camp.
>
> > As always we greatly appreciate your business and welcome your calls and
> > emails.
>
> > Ann McQuaid
> > General Manager
> > OpenVMS, Tru64, Alpha & MCBS Customer Programs
> > Hewlett-Packard Company
> > ann.mcqu... at hp.com<mailto:xxxxxxxxxxxx... at hp.com>
> > Admin: Susan Christie
> > 598-467-9999
>
> > ------------------------------------
>
> > I wonder if HP might replace this with travelling presentations (if
> > people can't afford to travel, perhaps get Sue and a few enginers to
> > travel to people).
>
> > In terms of Mrs McQuaid's title, does anyone know what MCBS is ?
>
> > Does her title really mean "General manager of mature technologies" ?

Richard,

I refrained from responding to your comment about OpenVMS Engineering,
but in light of some points Sue made, it is worth putting in my US$
0.02.

I doubt that anybody will accuse me of being an OpenVMS sycophant.
Those who attend symposia and the bootcamps know that I have publicly
asked many questions that perhaps some would rather not be asked.
Those who were there also know that I am not always 100% pleased by
the answers that I receive.

However, accusing OpenVMS Engineering of "hiding in an ivory tower"
is, frankly IMO, quite undeserved. OpenVMS Engineering has facilitated
contact between line engineers and customers at these events over the
entire history of OpenVMS dating back 30 years, and constructive
conversations often take place. This is often not the case for the
wide variety of other vendors with which I have dealings. In many of
those cases, it is virtually impossible to identify, much less
contact, those on the actual development team.

Everybody has their shortcomings, but on balance communications with
OpenVMS Engineering are good. I would rather have the dialogue and
discussion channels that we have had, and will hopefully continue to
have, with OpenVMS Engineering, than have the communications that I
deal with on other products, both proprietary and open source.

Long ago, there were some "flame wars" which gave some the impression
that it was not wise to post in the newsgroup (one can access my
January 1, 1993 "Courtesy and Civility" critique of those "flames" and
wars at
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.vms/tree/browse_frm/month/1993-01/35a84dca088cdece?rnum=11&_done=%2Fgroup%2Fcomp.os.vms%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fmonth%2F1993-01%3F#doc_9cb2377b91254e1b).
It now seems apparent that this problem does go beyond novices and
newbies, and affects others.

If a technical issue is being discussed, then it is a technical issue.
If it is a product management issue, engage the product management
team.

- Bob Gezelter, http://www.rlgsc.com