[Info-vax] Anyone in the DC area interested in an Integrity?

[Malcolm Dunnett]

Bill Gunshannon wrote:

>>> People from the northeast who winter in Florida still pay their
>>> fair share of taxes to the US to cover the resources they utilize.
>>> Canadians, some of whom spend more time down here than up there pay
>>> no taxes in the US. 

  Just a couple of points (sorry I should be ignoring your rant but I've 
always had a problem not reacting to the trolls)

   - Almost no snowbirds winter in the northeast (which I understand is 
where you live), so any taxes you personally pay other than federal 
income taxes are not going towards providing services to the "leeches".

   - If a US citizen who resides in New Jersey chooses to spend several 
months every year in Florida, California, Arizona, etc each year he 
still pays state income taxes to the state in which he resides, not to 
the state he winters in. So if you went to Florida for the winter you'd 
be just as much of a "leech" as a foreign national in that regard.

  - The "leeches" are paying their fair share of property taxes in the 
state in which they winter, either because they own a mobile home/condo 
(in which case they are assessed exactly the same property taxes as a US 
citizen would be for that property) or because they are renting a condo 
or pad in a trailer park, in which case the landlord has factored his 
property tax costs into the rent he charges (assuming said landlord is 
not a total idiot). One could in fact argue that they are paying much 
more than their fair share as they are only there for part of the year 
and there are a number of services those taxes support to which they 
don't have access (schools for example)

   - Federal income taxes are paid by all United States residents (who 
have taxable income) but not by visitors. You have an arguable point in 
that regard. If you examine where the Federal budget goes though you 
will see that the vast majority of it is for National Defense, 
Health,Medicare,Income Security, Social Security, etc - expenditures on 
services to which non-residents have no access. The few from which they 
arguably benefit(transportation, community development, etc) make up 
something like 10% of the federal budget. (I suppose you could argue 
visitors benefit from National Defense, but to exactly what degree I'm 
not sure - I submit they don't benefit from the war in Iraq). Against 
that figure you have to consider that all the money they spend while in 
the US ends up benefiting someone who probably pays federal income tax, 
which increases the tax revenues for said federal budget (yes, I know 
you've argued that so do US citizens, but it's not a zero-sum game, the 
extra money provided by the visitors leads indirectly to a net increase 
in federal tax revenues). Whether it's a net gain or loss (ie whether 
the visitors boost the federal tax revenues by more than the cost of the 
services they consume) neither you or I have an accurate way of 
calculating - however I would note that the states who host these 
"leeches" find the tourism revenues worthwhile

>> Did you pay Canadian taxes while visiting there in the summer?  Sales 
>> taxes, yes!  Income taxes on income earned in the U.S?  I doubt it very 
>> much!
> 
> I never spent more than 3 days there at a time.  As opposed to 6-7 months
> the snowbirds spend down here.

Just because you choose not to visit for longer is irrelevant. Many US 
citizens do. I could rant about the US visitors who tie their boats up 
around here for extended periods in the summer and pay no income taxes. 
Given the obvious value of some of those boats I suspect a piece of any 
of their owner's income tax would equal quite a few dozen income tax 
tithes from the pensioners who you are railing against.

> So do Americans.  until you get to the part about income taxes.  Americans
> pay them but Canadians who often spend more than 50% of their time here don't.

I suspect that almost no Canadian spends more than 50% of the year in 
the US (although many may spend 50%-1 day). A Canadian who stays longer 
than 6 months in the US requires a visa. You also risk losing your 
medical coverage and other entitlements if you don't spend at least half 
the year in your "home province".

> 
>>       For the most part they don't send their children to public schools 
>> here!  
> 
> Neither do I.  But I pay both local, state and federal taxes.

Did you ever attend a public school, college or university? Does the 
university you work at receive any government funding? If the answer to 
any of the above is yes then you've received a benefit not available to 
the "leeches"

> 
> And US citizens have no obligation to provide all of the usual services
> to foreigners who choose to spend a majority of their time in the US 
> without paying their fair share of cost of those services.

   see above