[Info-vax] Happy new Year !

[H Vlems]

On 3 jan, 07:20, "Richard Maher" <maher... at hotspamnotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Arne,
>
> "Arne Vajhøj" <a... at vajhoej.dk> wrote in message
>
> news:4b3d5ecb$0$279$14726298 at news.sunsite.dk...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 31-12-2009 05:28, H Vlems wrote:
> > > JF, I'm afraid that the next decade will see the end of a truly great
> > > Operating System.
> > > The optimism generated by the port of VMS to Itanium, early 2003 is,
> > > for me at least, completely gone.
> > > If somebody would want an answer to the question "Name an extremely
> > > reliable platform for a mission critical application"
> > > then I would no longer dare to suggest VMS.
> > > I understand the need for standardization, just trying to figure out
> > > what kind of memory fits in a certain VAX or Alpha is a RPITA at
> > > times.
> > > However if standardization also means being stripped of high quality
> > > solutions then it is not for me.
>
> > I think there is every reason to believe that the decline
> > in the number of VMS systems will continue in the next decade.
>
> > In 2020 there will be few left.
>
> > Sad, but realistic.
>
> That's as maybe; one thing's for sure, and that's the fact that no one needs
> a crystal ball to predict that from here till then (day-in, day-fucking-out)
> there will be not shortage of white-ants in this group gleefully heralding
> the demise of VMS :-(
>
> How inconsolable some must be that VMS is still here in 2010, or are they
> all in denial that those of us here with long memories have had to endure
> their apocalyptic perditions for over 10 years now?
>
> As one (of many) VMSer who has had to turn his hand to Linux/Windows to
> secure any sort of an IT future, I simply cannot understand how VMS's
> stengths can go unwitnessed even by those that should no better.
>
> Ah, who cares? I'm off to the Linux server team to hear how they can't
> simply upgrade one layed product without upgrading to a new distro (or
> whatever it is they call it) of the operating system. And .NET *is* a Web
> 1.0 server-centric piece o' shit that is there for all to see!
>
> "The browser *is* the client!"
> "The browser *is* the computer!"
> "The browser can talk to *anything* at the backend!"
> "VMS *is* the best server platform on the planet!"
>
> The problem lies not in VMS but in the same scum that has been making the
> decisions in VMS for the last 20 years still stalking the corridors :-(
>
> "Yes, but IPsec and IPv6 are not important to VMS as it won't be around long
> enough" - you still all make me sick!
>
>
>
> > Arne
>
> Regards Richard Maher
>
> PS. Nice to see my brother delayed on QANTAS for an hour because "a server
> went down". Sheesh - I wonder if there's any technology that could fix that?
>
> PPS. And then ther's the true story about my old boss who was suggesting
> rebuilding MySQL from sources to get around some problem :-o- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

May I inform you that you've been the white queen ant in the fairy
tail?
You've been quite clear and quite convincing that VMS couldn't do, nah
couldn't be considered a serious product without support for IPsec.
For the record, I agree with that. But the way the argument was raised
suggests (to put it mildly) that you're idea about the future of VMS
is not dissimilar from mine.
I spent the last 8 years at a shopt that ran one IBM (DOS/VSE)
mainframe and four windows NT 4 servers. No point for guessing where
the mission critical databases and applications ran.
Today there's no mainframe and about 100 Windows 2003 servers. One
application or database per machine. The cost of these 100 servers are
is less than than what was spent on the mainframe. Performance
increased by a factor 7 (measured at customer service and product
selling desks). Unplanned downtime just doesn't exist.
In fact we could do without system management altogether, like we all
run cars without having a trained mechanic living in tghe garage.
The sixties were the decade of the computer (the hardware), the
seventies the decade of the operating system, the eighties belonged to
programming languages and, the nineties saw the rise of (inter)
networks. The last decade we just saw people all over the world using
computers straight out of the box for all kinds of purposes without
giving an damn about the underpinning technology.
So where does that leave us? We're old enough to appreciate the
technology and to remember that once technology mattered. In the days
when computer technology was part an art and part unevealed science.
Today, like the car, the computer is a mass manufactured piece of gear
and, like cars, most users just watch the brandlabel without caring
what's inside. Car enthousiasts are probably horrified when, say, a
modern Alpha Romeo car is considered as a new version of a car with
the same logo thirty years ago. It's no longer an Alpha, it's a Fiat
and the fact that part of the outside metal was bent slightly
different than its Fiat counterpart doesn't matter much to them.
The same applies for the computer industry. Ford (or GM, whatever) and
Microsoft are similar. Mass production is the key to profit. ANd we're
all used to GM's, Ford's, Microsoft's and RedHat's products. Because
we can afford them as a regular paying customer.
I don't use VMS professionally, haven't so for 8 years and I seriously
doubt I ever will. So how come I run thirty systems at home? Because I
understand the platform and consider programming an art. No way I
could have afforded these systems on a commercial license and against
commercial hardware prices.
Agaian the similarity with cars is obvious: enthousiasts keep brands
running long after the manufacturer went out of business.
The computer industry has grown up. VMS and other operating systems
were an important factor in making that happen.That's certain. But
allow me the thought that VMS is not a mass market product with a
serious role after, say, 2014. HP may prove me wrong by porting VMS to
the 64 bit x86 platform but I won't be holding my breath.
Hans

PS
a bit long winded perhaps, my apologies if I got too boring at times