[Info-vax] VMS 5.0

[Richard B. Gilbert]

On 11/10/2011 12:08 PM, Bill Pechter wrote:
> In article<X7udndDIALKHPSTTnZ2dnUVZ_hSdnZ2d at giganews.com>,
> Richard B. Gilbert<rgilbert88 at comcast.net>  wrote:
>> On 11/8/2011 2:42 PM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
>>> On 2011-11-08 15.50, Bob Koehler wrote:
>>>> In
>>>> article<e26cf339-adbf-48b1-aaf0-8bf7e6bceac7 at i10g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
>>>> abrsvc<dansabrservices at yahoo.com>  writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> The more likely contents are the standanlone backup kit. IIRC, the
>>>>> actual VMS software was distributed on magtape,TK50 and removeable
>>>>> disk only.
>>>>
>>>> Some VMS update kits were distributed on TU58.
>>>>
>>>> One of the 3.x update kits was on several TU58, at the time the only
>>>> option for 11/750 owners. (I think it was on 8" floppies for
>>>> 11/780). At the time only full installs shipped on 9-track.
>>>>
>>>> It took so long to ingest from TU58 and DEC got so many complaints
>>>> that DEC decided, and loudly declared at the next DECUS symposium,
>>>> that in the future _all_ kits would be available on 9-track.
>>>>
>>>> Then CD became the standard media for Alpha, and available for VAX,
>>>> so we immediately ordered a Qbus CD reader for our MV II.
>>>
>>> I can't even imagine how many TU58 it would take for a full VMS
>>> distribution. About 100 tapes maybe? Considering that the standalone
>>> backup alone is 5 RX01 floppies, and the capacity of the TU58 is
>>> similar, the number of disks/tapes even for some update kit quickly
>>> becomes ridiculous as far as the number of media is concerned.
>>>
>>> Johnny
>>
>> ISTR that you could die of old age trying to install from TU58!
>>
>> Just doing a BACKUP /VERIFY to nine track 1600 BPI tape took about
>> fourteen hours!  At this late date, I understand why DEC gave us
>> (Princeton University) an 11/750 with RA-81 disk at an extreme discount!
>>   Nobody in his right mind would have paid for it if he had to install
>> it and/or do full disk backups!
>
> What tape drive was this -- a TapeStretcher-11 or TE16.

My fading memory insists it was a "TU-81".  It was nine track 1600 BPI.

>
> The TU77 was much faster.  Backup/verify at 125 ips was a lot better
> than anything off the Unibus in the day.
>
>> I put in a few fourteen hour days doing BACKUP and RESTORE to remedy
>> disk/file fragmentation.  I also put in a good deal of time trying to
>> convince users that they should allocate a reasonable amount of
>> contiguous disk space to hold their data.
>>
>> Eventually, somebody wrote some software that could defragment an ODS-2
>> file system without doing a backup and restore.
>
>
> I remember doing DSC on VAX/VMS 2.x when doing installs... Not too bad
> with a string of TU77's.  OK when going disk to disk on RP06's too.
>
> (Long time since Princeton.  Was there a year ago at a meeting.  They're
> moving to a new datacenter.  Time flies.
>
> Bill
>
>