[Info-vax] Current VMS Usage Survey

[Bill Gunshannon]

In article <l7sp3c$pbc$1 at dont-email.me>,
	Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh at hoffmanlabs.invalid> writes:
> On 2013-12-06 14:26:58 +0000, Bill Gunshannon said:
> 
>>     "Cancellation" means the cancellation (within a contractually
>>     specified time) of the total requirements of all remaining
>>     program years.
> 
> So your definition of "there are no multi-year contracts" is "there are 
> multi-year contracts, but they have clauses"?   OK.
> 
> It's common for commercial contracts to include cancellation clauses, 
> termination clauses and non-payment clauses, too.    Most any cellphone 
> plan with a subsidy involved will have these.  Few private entities 
> would sign a multi-year contract without those clauses.  Which leads me 
> to wonder what the particular distinction you're drawing here might be. 

The distinction is that outside the government contracting world the
default is continuation of the contract and the enforcible requirement
to pay for it or pay penalties for not continuing.  With the government
the default is the exact opposite.  No one can commit the government to
pay any money beyond the end of the FY because until the new budget is
settled and signed there is no money.  Try telling your cell carrier
that your not going to pay your bill from October to December because
you don't have a budget. With government contracting (maybe I should
qualify this, I only have experience with contracting at the Federal
level) you can not commit funds beyond the end of the FY and there can
not be penalties because -----  There would be no budgeted money to
pay them.  This is not to say that private contracts can't do this too,
but the norm is for longer term contracts to be let because of the
potential savings in doing so.  I know of no business that runs on a
budget system like the US government.  They wouldn't stay in business
for very long.

>   That the contracts have those clauses by default?  Well, um, I've 
> seen more than a few boiler-plate contracts over the years, some 
> clearly quite directly copied from contract templates.  (Having chatted 
> with a lawyer on this topic, also which particular clauses should be 
> struck out and declined during associated negotiations, but that's 
> fodder for another discussion.)
> 
> The local municipality has done multi-year purchases for various items 
> and very likely will again, and that's hardly unusual.  There are 
> specific requirements set by the state.  Being multi-year, those 
> purchases required a different mechanism for approving the contract, 
> but the contracts can and still do happen.   

I wonder if that's one of the reasons Detroit is in the crapper now?
But, as stated above, all my experience is at the Federal level and
we had it drummed into us that at no time were we to ever even hint
at a government financial committment beyond the end of the FY.

>                                             That these multi-year 
> contacts are in fact not multi-year contracts is certainly going to be 
> an interesting revelation to the lawyers that drafted them and the 
> private entities and government folks that signed them.  I'd be floored 
> if the Feds had any less flexibility here than the locals already have.

Trust me, they do.  I can go out now and find lots of "multi-year"
contracts for sales to the government that never went anywhere near
their projected lifespan.  Just look back at the sequester.  How many
contractors were "furloughed" when the FY ended without a budget.  I
am sure they all had long-term contracts but lack of funding always
overrules in Federal contracting.  I even have first hand experience.
In 2009 I was busy escorting contractors around the world to do HBSS
installs.  In late September we were in Korea.  My instructions included
that if there was still a budget impasse on 30 September I was to get
on a plane with my contractors and return to the US regardless of the
status of the install.  The reason was that without a budget there would
be no money to pay for any expenses or travel for the contractors who's
contracts would immediately fall into limbo.  I was OK cause I was military
and could always jump an Air Force cargo back to the states, but the
contractors would be stranded unless they paid their own way back with
no chance of later reimbursement by the government.



bill


-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
billg999 at cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>