[Info-vax] Long uptime cut short by Hurricane Sandy

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2013-02-05 17:52, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> In article <kerbql$q6r$1 at iltempo.update.uu.se>,
> 	Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
>> On 2013-02-05 15:49, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>> In article <keqjdl$i7s$1 at iltempo.update.uu.se>,
>>> 	Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
>>>> On 2013-02-04 17:15, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>>>    The fact that it doesn't
>>>>> already exist in Unix pretty much shows the lack of desire for a
>>>>> program to specifically do it.
>>>>
>>>> Now, wait a minute. That's a very sucky argument.
>>>> By that logic, no new programs are needed, since they haven't already
>>>> been done.
>>>> I don't buy that.
>>>
>>> OK, probably badly worded.  What I meant was once someone saw the
>>> functionality, given the time it has been around, the fact that
>>> a program with that functionality has not been written for Unix
>>> demonstrates a lack of interest.
>>
>> Maybe. Or NIH.
>
> Based on the popularity of things like the comp.sources.* groups I really
> don't think NIH was a problem in the Unix world.

Sometimes it does pop up its head in surprising places...

>>                  Or plain unawareness.
>
> Now that's a strong possibility.  Most people in the IT world are unaware
> of VMS much less a single feature added to it by a user.

Heh... :-)

>>                                        Or how about maybe it has been done
>> in various incantations numerous times. We just don't know about it.
>
> Also possible, but I think less likely as my experience has always
> been that when people in the unix world write something they think
> is cool they tend to throw it out to the world.  Contrary to what
> RMS would have the world believe there was considerable source
> sharing before the GPL was foisted onto the world.

True, but there is just so much junk out there that lots of it just 
drown in the noise.

>>> Much like a VMS-like HELP system.  People here are constanly knocking
>>> the unix manpages system while holding up the HELP system as the
>>> epitome of online documentation but still,no one has bothered to
>>> write one for Unix. To me that just shows that people on Unix don't
>>> hold it at the same level of esteem and writing one would be a
>>> waste of time.
>>
>> Can you spell to info?
>
> Yes, but last I looked it was very limiyted and no one was moving all
> of the unix man pages into it.  personally, I have always found it
> cumbersome and of little use.

I'm not too fond of info, but it definitely is different than man, and 
it exists because people dislike man.
That unix don't have something like VMS help can be attributed to lots 
of things. But obviously there is a need and a wish for something else 
than the current man-pages, which are a good reference library at best, 
and just horrible text at worst. It's never really helpful. :-)

>> That exists because more people dislike man...
>
> So then, why are the man pages not all rewritten in info?  Or, if they
> are, it is a well kept secret because I have certainly never seen them.

I didn't say that I thought info was any good. Lots of people really 
hate it. But it's definitely an alternative to man that does exist, and 
have some fairly large spreading.

So you have these (at least) two camps who are fighting... Oh well...
I think both sides agree that man-pages are less than good, but they 
definitely disagree on whether info is an improvement or not. :-)

	Johnny