[Info-vax] booting vaxstation off alpha

[Stephen Hoffman]

On 2013-02-10 20:04:50 +0000, David Froble said:

> Phillip Helbig---undress to reply wrote:
>> 
>> Do you need DECnet at all?
> 
> Do you need a computer at all?

Various folks don't need a traditional computer.  In a number of cases, 
a tablet or client device with hosted services works nicely; an 
"embedded" solution.

> I've seen people get stubborn about DECnet.  They feel they are using 
> TCP/IP and therefore won't install DECnet.  I feel this is a big 
> mistake.

Some places ban non-IP protocols for various reasons, or don't have 
DDCMP-capable routing.  Which gets folks migrated over onto DECnet-Plus 
via IP, or off of DECnet entirely.

> Just this one thing makes DECnet worth having.
> 
> You need to do something with TCP/IP on a remote system, which will 
> include shutting down and re-starting TCP/IP.  How do you connect to 
> the system?  TCP/IP is down and TELNET won't work.  DECnet will provide 
> you with SET HOST FOO (or whatever the computer name is).

If that's a common requirement, sure, DECnet works nicely for that.  As 
does LAT, for that matter.  It's also feasible to script a shutdown and 
a startup; that's a few lines of DCL on VMS.  Or use a remote console 
path, if the gear is current or configured for it.  Or reboot whole the 
box.

> When you don't need the complexity of a cluster, DECnet's FAL provides 
> access to RMS files on remote systems.

Yep.  VMS doesn't support a FUSE 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace> or such, with 
fish 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Files_transferred_over_shell_protocol> or 
sshfs <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSHFS>, but that sort of stuff can 
be useful in similar circumstances.

> Utilities such as COPY, DIRECTORY, and such use DECnet.

FWIW, ssh allows for that, too.   The following is from a Unix box to a 
VMS box:

$ ssh user at example.org directory x.x/prot

....

Directory ...

X.X;2                (RWED,RWED,,)
X.X;1                (RWED,RWED,,)

$

> Doing a BACKUP to a disk on a  remote system uses DECnet.

On a Unix box, I'd expect zip via ssh/sftp would work.  (Will have to 
try that, though.)   That'll not be as neat or as concise as the VMS 
syntax, but then I've mentioned bash can be cryptic.

> DECnet IV has little cost and great value.

Yep.  Though that MAC address swap is a pain.

> Even on a single system there are some advantages with DECnet.

Yep.


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