[Info-vax] Backup TK50 tapes

[supervinx]

Il Sat, 23 Feb 2013 16:44:32 -0500, Stephen Hoffman ha scritto:

> On 2013-02-23 20:46:30 +0000, supervinx said:
> 
>> Il Sat, 23 Feb 2013 13:39:34 -0500, Stephen Hoffman ha scritto:
>> 
>>> On 2013-02-23 17:41:38 +0000, supervinx said:
>>> 
>>>> Well, let's see again what I've understood...
>>> 
>>> 0) No one willing uses tape boot.
>>> 
>> Hmmm ... so why do boot tapes exist ?
> 
> Because the Internet and bootstraps from remote servers didn't exist?
> 
> ... Because USB disks didn't exist?
> 
> ... Or because DVD or CD optical media didn't exist?    (CD also
> replaced 8 track cassettes, cassette audio tapes, and vinyl records. But
> I digress.)
> 
> ... InfoServer wasn't and never became ubiquitous, and early VAX/VMS
> didn't have satellite boot capabilities...
> 
> Because computing was different in the 1970s?   We don't have to toggle
> addresses into the front panel switches anymore.  Yeah, I know, that
> wasn't VAX-11.  That was some of the PDP-11 boxes back then, but I
> digress.
> 
> Because the best of the available options into the 1980s was 9-track
> magtape, TU58 cartridge "disks", an RX01 floppies, or (more expensive)
> disk cartridges, or a few other hunks of roughly-contemporary hardware?
> 
> Back then, magtape was capacious, easily shipped around, relatively
> resistent to damage, and cheap.
> 
> This stuff got started back in the VAX era with the TU58 DECtape II
> "disks" (small, slow "disk") and RX01 floppy disks (small, slow), and
> magtape (cacious, slow), but 9-track magtapes required a large and
> expensive widget, later reduced to a less-large and less expensive TU80,
> then to a less-large and less-expensive) TSZ07 or TK50 and DLT and some
> other devices, yes with a sojourn into RL02 and RC25 and RA60 disks of
> which the media distro disks for a while but also pricy options.
> 
> Given tape boot existed for the big VAX systems, adding other tape
> cartridges to the list was incremental work.  Maintaining the whole mess
> was another matter.  As was waiting for the tape to boot and work.
> 
> Since you're seeking knowledge, consider booting standalone from TU58.
>  The wait can be... exquisite.   At the tail end of the support for
> that stuff, there were five volumes required IIRC.  Or better, consider
> what's involved with a boot from TU58 on a VAX-11/725 or VAX-11/730,
> which means waiting for the console TU58, too...  At least with the
> VAX-11/725, you might scrounge RC25 media.  (The RC25 Aztec certainly
> helped ensure mount verification worked.  But I digress.)  All of that
> stuff got retired, too.
> 
Oh, you didn't notice my subtle irony ? ;)
If tapes exist(ed), it was to be used.

I can see you don't like tapes so much :)
I can't disagree at all...

No one willingly will use tapes, no one in production now will boot
from a tape. 
Only some brain-damaged hobbyist, curious to see how the world was before :)

Oh, I installed many OSes from tape. The last was DomainOS, from DC6150
tapes. It took hours of back and forth spinning...