[Info-vax] Unix on A DEC Vax?

[MG]

On 20-jan-2013 5:30, Howard S Shubs wrote:
> Linux's strength is as a development platform, kind of like VMS.

Yes and I don't have a problem with it, it's rather that because
of that status quo many software developers and manufacturers will
not release or


> You wouldn't find Photoshop on VMS either

Wouldn't that be something, if it did exist!


> though I rememberWordPerfect and MS Word there.  As a desktop platform,
> it left much to be desired.

WordPerfect for VAX/VMS, I remember and saw manuals for sale on various
auction sites (but not the actual software).  But, MS Word?  Was that
also once available for VMS, or do you simply mean for Windows...?


> When I said Linux is the only long term viable platform, that's what
> I meant.  Software can be developed there.

Who cares though?  It can be, but it won't happen.  That's the
problem.

Software could be developed for VMS also, but it wasn't forthcoming
and especially so nowadays.

In my experience and from what I hear from people involved with
'computers' in varying degrees (from "IT professional" to "end-
user"), "Linux" to them means 'a [web] server'.


> Other than Windows, UNIXish platforms are all we've got left.

All this talk about diversity, eh?  Apparently not so much of a
requirement for the world of computing, though.


> OpenVMS, as I understand the situation, is not being ported again.

That's very likely indeed.  *sigh*


>BSD is, as far as I know, in the same place as Linux regarding
> "professional software", what do you suggest?

Actually, BSD is even worse off than Linux and especially in that
regard.  Shame, because I generally like BSDs (like NetBSD and
OpenBSD).


> AIX?

The feeling I got of it was like a 'commercial generic UNIX with
much of the functionality of Linux with lots of proprietary and
unusual administration tools', the last time I tried it (I believe
version 6.1 on an unwieldy POWER4 thing).

The desktop of AIX may not have been much, but it did provide
hardware-accelerated graphics and software like CATIA ran on it.
(In fact, the last POWER-system I had was originally used at BMW
as a computer-aided technical design system and still had the
inventory labels on it.)


> Other than Linux, that's all that's left unless you want to go
> for IBM big iron, which I don't pretend to understand!

IBM big iron, the "i" and "z" have never had anything remotely
resembling a 'desktop' either.  Which, of course, is perfectly
fine.  It's just a wholly different category and /class/ of
beast, in those cases.  Unless you're referring to big iron
"p" systems?  But no, I definitely don't need that.

I recently assembled a barebone mini-PC with a Core i7 quad-
core processor, 16 Gbytes RAM and a SSD disk.  The silence,
just great!  I'll be mostly emulating from now on.  I'm
planning on only keeping my Multia/UDB, to occasionally run
VMS V7.3 on actual hardware.


> smit is wonderful for that purpose.

Digital/Tru64 UNIX also had amazing administration tools, ever
tried?


> But it runs, as far as I know, only on silicon from IBM.  Linux
> doesn't have that limitation.  It runs on everything!  It ran on
> my Palm TX, for crying out loud.  With a graphical desktop!  Why??
> Doesn't matter.  It runs on a Raspberry Pi!  It runs on x86 and ARM.
> It runs on IBM big iron!  Does it run on car computers?  I seem to
> remember hearing there are chopped down versions for that purpose,
> so it can be used for real time applications.  What does it not work
> for?

Embedded Linux definitely has its uses, but it never really attracted
me too much though.  One thing is for sure, it's often not like a
'vanilla' Linux installation, with a lot of custom(ized) software
from certain manufacturers, often with a clothed down kernel to go
with it and a restricted userland, sometimes even no 'super user'
access...


> The average home computer user reads/writes e-mail and browses the
> web.

Those are exactly the things that they'd be able to do on a 'tablet',
as I said, or not?


> They may also use Office and play a few games.

Games, as we already established (unless it's of the small-time 'time
killing' variety on iOS and Android), are not exactly the forté of
Linux...


> They are not power users.

I personally don't really think someone using Photoshop is exactly
a "power user" either, especially as it's very common nowadays and
highly proliferated (on the supported platforms).


> I'm deleting most of your arguments as grasping at straws.

Many are based on the harsh statistics.  Linux is mostly a server
and embedded/tablet platform, that's what I've been saying.  For
those who try to do more with it, they often run into trouble.

Audio, graphics, power management, etc. all is very 'reverse-
engineered' and /improvised/ and I'm hardly the first one to
ever remark that.  I've spoken with several dedicated Linux
/developers/ who were far more scathing than me about it.


> Linux will continue to be refined.  More professional software
> will be created.

What about Photoshop, when will it finally appear?  It has been
over 20 years or so, but still nothing.  It's just one example
and a very well-known one, too.


> The operating system itself will get easier to work with.

I'm not complaining in that regard.


> Complaining right now that what you're aware of RIGHT NOW is not
> up to snuff is just lack of patience.  You KNOW how these things
> can change. Bide.

This is what I don't get of some of you here.  VMS 'saw it
coming', but for the same faults and handicaps, but Linux is
somehow different?  I don't /see/ it that way, at all.

Things haven't changed much for Linux.  The Linux desktop,
overall, is as poor as it was 10~15 years ago.  It only
enjoyed more bloat (just see Linus Torvalds' fairly recent
remarks about several major window managers) and a handful
of companies providing driver support, but often with much
to be desired (I'd kindly refer you to Linus Torvalds' again,
like when he lashed out at NVIDIA last year).

The only reason why Linux can't really 'die' like VMS can,
is because nobody truly 'owns' it.  But, it can still end
up in an even more vegetative state, especially when Google
and the like steal its thunder and reduce it to "Darwin"
compared to OS X...

  - MG