[Info-vax] [Attn: HP Employees] PDP-11 OS hobbyist licensing

[johnwallace4 at yahoo.co.uk]

On Tuesday, 1 October 2013 13:15:31 UTC+1, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
> On 2013-09-30 20:30, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
> 
> > Simon Clubley <clubley at remove_me.eisner.decus.org-earth.ufp> wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > (snip)
> 
> >
> 
> >> As I understand it, the issues everyone seems to be talking about when
> 
> >> this comes up fall into two main stages.
> 
> >
> 
> >> 1) The existing Mentec license talks about DEC owned emulators only and
> 
> >> the language dates from the time when simh was created while it's creator
> 
> >> worked at DEC.
> 
> >
> 
> > As well as I understand it, and IANAL, when a company is bought by
> 
> > another company contracts (such as license agreements) automatically
> 
> > apply to the new company. Consider that a bank might buy another bank
> 
> > that holds many mortgage loans. You don't stop paying just because the
> 
> > bank you contracted with doesn't exist anymore.
> 
> >
> 
> >> The first stage would be to extend that so that the Mentec license (or
> 
> >> something like it) continues to cover simh now it's no longer a DEC
> 
> >> project.
> 
> >
> 
> > On the other hand, I have no idea how the transfer of emulators
> 
> > was done to HP.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that is the point. It was not transferred to HP. In fact, it got 
> 
> spun away from DEC all together. Now, a continued work by an individual 
> 
> might not be covered by the same license as the original work.
> 
> 
> 
> That is what one part of the problem here is about. The license in 
> 
> question mentions "emulator owned by DEC". This was simh, back when simh 
> 
> was a DEC "product". Bob later quit DEC, and continued working on simh 
> 
> on his own. Is this later, improved version, owned by Bob still covered 
> 
> by a license for software on a simulator owned by DEC?
> 
> Sounds doubtful, if you ask me.
> 
> 
> 
> You might possibly claim that the version DEC had was probably 
> 
> transferred to HP, and *that* version would still be covered. But I 
> 
> doubt anyone can find that version of simh anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> >> 2) A relaxing of the OS license conditions so that they can become
> 
> >> available, open source style, for people to work on. A example here
> 
> >> might be the way CDE was made open.
> 
> >
> 
> >> My main interest is in stage (1), so I will leave others more interested
> 
> >> in stage (2) to talk about that.
> 
> >
> 
> >> PS: BTW, is TOPS-10/TOPS-20 still HP owned, or was that placed in the
> 
> >> public domain by DEC ?
> 
> >
> 
> > As well as I understand it, and this is without looking it up for
> 
> > a while, it isn't public but is open for the usual hobbyist usage.
> 
> > Then again, I was only interested in hobby usage so I might have
> 
> > forgotten. You should probably look it up before you start using
> 
> > it to run your business.
> 
> 
> 
> Rich Alderson already followed up more on this, and yes, Tops-10/TOPS-20 
> 
> are not in the public domain. But they are also not owned by HP anymore. 
> 
> And hobbyist usage is allowed.
> 
> 
> 
> 	Johnny

Are you able to quote chapter and verse wrt "emulators owned by DEC"?

I was aware of goings on related to a couple of PDP11 emulators inside DEC, and neither of them was SIMH. Doesn't mean that SIMH activity wasn't going on in parallel, mind you. But I have no recollection of word of DEC offering SIMH ever reaching UK customers.