[Info-vax] [Attn: HP Employees] PDP-11 OS hobbyist licensing

[Bill Gunshannon]

In article <l2jei6$9e0$1 at iltempo.update.uu.se>,
	Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
> On 2013-10-03 03:43, glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:
>> Bill Gunshannon <bill at server2.cs.scranton.edu> wrote:
>>
>> (snip on lawyers, time, and infringement)
>>
>>> Sure, and that might be making coffee, but I doubt it.  The assumption
>>> here seems to be that it would cost HP more than the IP is worth to
>>> defend it.  I don't see it that way. And, it is irrelevant to the real
>>> issue which is can someone just post HP's IP on the web. That is illegal,
>>> and immoral.  It is theft, plain and simple.  Why do people have such
>>> a hard time accepting this?  Nobody wants to see the PDP-11 OSes freed
>>> more than I do, but I won;t steal them.  Heck, I have tapes I got from
>>> Mentec in the basement. But I am not going to load them on a machine
>>> and use them unless the opportunity to do that in accord with the license
>>> agreement I signed re-develops.  But it won't.  :-)
>>
>> OK, how about the more common case of web sites that redistribute
>> device drivers for current hardware, likely including HP.
>> Now, it is likely that such drivers are available free on HP's
>> web site for purchasers of the hardware, and people might even need
>> to agree that they own the hardware and that they won't redistribute
>> it after downloading it.
>>
>> On the other hand, there is much hardware that is now useless as
>> the software to drive it is not available. (Assuming one has the
>> host system and appropriate OS version to run it.) So, having
>> sites archive device drivers and other software needed to run
>> hardware is useful. Many companies are good at keeping drivers,
>> manuals, and other software on their web sites for obsolete
>> hardware, but not all.
>>
>> (Some years ago I bought a Gatorbox on eBay and found that the
>> company supplied the software, along with the activation passwords
>> on their web site. This was after it was pretty much obsolete.
>> I think it cost $1 plus shipping on eBay at the time.)
>>
>> Now, I would say that it is stealing if one were to clone the hardware
>> and then use downloaded software designed for purchasers of the
>> original. (Though often it costs more to clone old hardware than
>> to find someone selling it.)  But using the software that came with
>> the original hardware but with the original disks lost along the
>> way doesn't seem like stealing to me.
>>
>> Now, say someone has a PDP-11 system that had previously been
>> licenses to run a specific DEC OS. Also, consider that the original
>> disks and license agreement might have been lost over the years.
>> Is it fair to download (somehow) such system and run it?
> 
> Technically no.
> 
> But it's also a different question from the one about distributing the 
> software. I doubt HP would go after the people who downloaded, and was 
> running the software. But the guy (or company) who was distributing 
> it...? Who knows...
> 
> Let us be clear here. Technically, according to law, we are not allowed 
> to distribute it, nor run it without a license.
> 
> The discussions here really boils down to a "will HP bother"? And for 
> people on the receiving end, chances are they will not. For the 
> distributing end, maybe chances are also that they will not.
> But it is all speculation. We all know that it would be illegal. So 
> people advocating this are asking someone (else) to gamble.
> 
> I find it depressing how willing some people are to ask others to gamble 
> their whole financial future. And this in the country which is famous 
> for financial lawsuits...
> 
> Let me just say that I know the XX2247 is not willing to gamble this 
> way. So, until HP gives a green light, the software stays put.
> 
> But I'm sure you could talk XX2247 about buying it from them. Then you 
> sign the papers, and then you can break those agreements to your hearts 
> content.

I, too, am both amazed and disappointed that, once again, we see people
who want to apply a totally different standard to things because computers
are involved.  For those who think all this jabbering is a waste of time
and bandwidth let me say that at least one good thing may come out of this.
Every year we have at least one talk given by an ACM Distinguished Speaker.
I am going to catch the ACM Faculty Moderator today and if they have not
already locked in a speaker I am going to try to convince him that we
should get someone who can talk in depth about copyright and Intelectual
Property as it applies to the computer world.  I don't understand why
this is so hard to understand. Maybe it is because my degree is in both
CS and Theology (well, German too, but that isn't relevant here except
in a very remote manner :-) that I have a much more philosophical and
ethical view of the subject, but c'mon man, it ain't rocket science.

bill

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
billg999 at cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>