[Info-vax] VMS Desktop system

[Jan-Erik Soderholm]

Dirk Munk wrote 2014-09-15 09:56:
> Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
>> Dirk Munk wrote 2014-09-15 01:54:
>>> Shark8 wrote:
>>>> In another thread, there was some discussion of how a "modern browser"
>>>> for VMS is needed which, in turn, prompted discussion of VMS as a
>>>> desktop system.
>>>>
>>>> There are apparently a few windowing-managers for VMS (I've seen X and
>>>> DECWindows mentioned); but as an absolute newcomer to VMS I have no
>>>> experience with either and, from the context, it seems that neither of
>>>> these are adequate.
>>>>
>>>
>>> What you bring up here are two different things. DECWindows, X-Windows,
>>> Motif etc. are client-server applications, where the server has the
>>> screen,
>>> and the client is running the applications. Just the other way around as
>>> you might expect.
>>>
>>> A browser is an application that is usually running on a system that
>>> has a
>>> graphical screen. a PC for instance.
>>>
>>> VMS did have a browser, Mozilla, and I used it on my VMS workstation.
>>> These
>>> days it is called Seamonkey, and I'm using it on my PC. Originally it was
>>> called Netscape as you may know.
>>>
>>> Now the question is if VMS should have workstation functionality once
>>> more,
>>> which means it's own graphic drivers and applications like a browser. I
>>> would say NO.
>>>
>>> At present there are three manufacturers for graphic cards left,
>>> Intel, AMD
>>> and Nvidia. Intel has the graphics on the CPU, certain AMD CPUs have an
>>> embedded GPU. It would not be feasible for VSI to produce drivers for all
>>> GPUs of these three manufacturers. Building a Mozilla version for VMS is
>>> also quite a job, and then you still don't have all kind of add on
>>> applications.
>>>
>>> It would be much simpler to put a VM system on an x86 desktop, and run an
>>> instance of VMS on it, combined with an instance of Windows, Linux, or
>>> even
>>> MAC OS. Let those other operating systems do browsing, mailing etc. By
>>> sing
>>> Samba etc. you can exchange data between bot operating systems. For
>>> instance, download a file with a browser in windows, and save the file
>>> on a
>>> Samba share of VMS.
>>>
>>> Every graphics card can also be used with simple a VESA Bios programming
>>> interface. That is more than enough for a simple graphical VMS boot
>>> screen
>>> etc. , so no need for advanced graphical drivers.
>>>
>>> In my view this should be a future VMS workstation, or desktop, or even
>>> laptop.
>>
>> Agree.
>> Adding all kind of "desktop" stuff nativily to VMS is not where
>> I'd like my support money to go. That is a dead-end.
>>
>> But one thing, why do you want/need a VMS instance in a VM on your local
>> (say) laptop system? What services does VMS provide that is beneficial
>> to the personal desktop environment and that are unique for VMS?
>>
>> OK, I can see why a (non-paying) hobbyist would like to have that,
>> but in a professional environment? For development maybe? But then
>> you can not run free hobbyist and that would need a major remake
>> of the licenses. And isn't it just as easy to connect remotely
>> to your office VMS development system, when needed?
>>
>> Now, a combined Windows laptop with VMS in a VM might open some
>> new posibilites for new GUI/IDE solutions for VMS development.
>> But lets see how much VSI's efforts are directed to the current
>> VMS sites and how much they will actualy trying to open up
>> new VMS markets. That is a bit unclear at the moment.
>
> Instead of asking why you should run VMS on your laptop, ask yourself why
> not. The possibilities are numerous. To start with a very simple thing, you
> can work at home in your garden.

I alreay do that daily. Well, summertime anyway... :-)

> No need for a fast highly secured network,
> everything you need is on your laptop.

I use whatever my customer offers for remote work. That
is secure enough for me.

VT emulation doesn't need that much of bandwith.
My home ISP connection is 100 Mb/s and I have usualy
50-60 Mb/s on the wireless in the garden. And I have
7-8 Mb/s using my 3G cellular "plugg" in my laptop, and
then I can be practicly anyware.

> You can have multiple VMS test
> instances of multiple customers on your laptop, you can test client server
> applications on your laptop, you can even set up a cluster on your laptop.

Yes, that is a point. The problem is that a customer environment
probably is to large/complicated to be able to copy to a laptop
VM/VMS environment. And you probably need permission to do that.

> You will not bother anyone else with your testing, and so on. It all
> depends on licensing costs of course, but if VSI finds a way to make
> personal use of VMS affordable, this will be the next version of the 'old'
> VMS workstations. I used several of them and enjoyed them very much.

Yes, with changes licensing new and different ways to work
opens up.

I guess that the final point where we do agree is that all this
can be done without investing in native "desktop" applications
and tools for VMS itself. You simply keep all that on your
regular laptop environment (usualy Windows based today).

Jan-Erik.