[Info-vax] DCL's flaws (both scripting and UI)

[David Froble]

Stephen Hoffman wrote:

> Given that I can generate and execute machine code from with a BASIC 
> program or given I can generate machine code from within DCL, and — 
> given sufficient privileges or a security vulnerability — that machine 
> code can then do anything I want.  In short, both languages are Turing 
> complete.   It's that DCL is clunky, slow, complex, difficult to use and 
> requires a whole lot of work to do what can now be simpler tasks.  
> Having used both DCL and BASIC for many years, both require more than a 
> little coding for what they deliver, and both have no shortage of 
> limitations.    If you want new users, the folks are going to want newer 
> tools and higher-level abstractions.  Could I write a web browser in 
> BASIC?  Sure.  But on some other platforms, the end user need write a 
> whole lot fewer lines of code to get to the target solution.   Could I 
> write a web browser in BP2 on a PDP-11/RSX-11M box?  Sure.  That's how I 
> find using DCL and BASIC on VMS now.  Workable, but a whole lot of work.
> 
> 

Ah, but why can you do so?

We both know why so much can be done easily in things like Python.  It's 
because an extensive library of support routines exists as part of the 
distribution.  Where did they come from?  Somebody had to write them.

I also have libraries of routines to do things.  If I have libraries in 
Basic that match the libraries in say Python, then what's the major 
difference between the environments?  I suggest it's very little.

Even that C thingy would be rather poor, if it didn't have all the 
libraries of procedures.

So, yeah, without all the tools, library routines, boiler plate stuff, 
and such, writing a program in Basic can be rather tiresome.  When I 
need to write only 10% or less of the code to do something, then it 
becomes much more useful.  Is my stuff maybe older, and perhaps less 
universal?  Not so all inclusive?  Yeah.  But still very helpful.  If it 
does everything I need, what does the missing stuff matter, to me?

I always did enjoy tools and R&D and such more than writing applications.