[Info-vax] IBM Layoffs (quite a bit off topic)

[Bill Gunshannon]

In article <mab4lf$3vp$1 at speranza.aioe.org>,
	brendan welch <w1lpg at uml.edu> writes:
> This may sound strange coming from a former school teacher,
> but I see a relation here.

I am not a teacher but I play one on TV.  No, wait, that's wrong.
I just work at university where I have been for over 25 years.  :-)

> 
> We are constantly politically assailed about the necessity
> of (high priced) education,  but please note:

Funny, all you get assailed with here is the necessity for very low-priced
and mostly valueless education. 

McCann Business and Technology
DeVry
ITT Tech
Johnson College (local one, get a "degree" in Diesel Mechanics)
And the list goes on and on.  And now Obama is pushing Associate
Degrees which are totally worthless.


> 
> 1) There are simply too many educated people.  Thousands
> laid off from IBM (and previously especially from the
> financial community) are competing with kids who will
> be paid much less.

No, actually what there are is too many over educated people and people
who got educated in subjects that don't equate to any job beyond creating
even more of the same.

> 
> 2) My recent experience, maybe just local to me, has been
> that many or most graduates end up in an entirely different
> field than what they studied in.  Why?

Over educated, for one.  In the time I have been here the requirements
for Professorship has risen to the level of minimum Phd.  Originally,
you could adjunct teach with a BS/BA, but not today.  Now, explain to
me what has changed in the last 25 years that would require a greater
degree to accomplish the same task?  Same thing on the outside world
only with a fewe twists.  There was an article in the Atlanta Journal
Constitution almost a year ago about it jobs being filled by tech school
grads while BS CS students went un-hired.  Why is this?  Look at comments
coming from people like the CEO at Google (and others).  Colleges are
more interested in driving the bus than in preparing the riders for the
current job needs.  And that doesn't even take into account the push for
over credentialing.  That Phd is not going to make you more marketable
and may actualy do the opposite as hiring companies may not even consider
you because they expect (reasonably) that you will expect higher compensation
than they are prepared to offer, so why even bother interviewing you.

And, the other facet of this problem is what people choose to study.
Kinesiology?  How many gym teachers do we really need.  Sports medicine?
Too specialized.  Especially when your not even a doctor.  And, of course,
the usual culprits.  English, Philosophy, Theology, Math.  Back in my
factory days, you can't even imagine how many people "worked the lines"
with me who had advanced degrees.  Made for some very interesting
conversations while stuffing toilet paper into cardboard boxes.  Wonder
what they do now that robots do that job.  :-)  And another good anecdote
from about 30 years ago.  I knew this guy who graduated from the US Naval
Academy.  His major was Marine Biology.  they sent him off to grad school
and he came back to the Academy as a Professor.  But he wanted to actually
apply his education.  So he resigned his naval Commission and went out
looking for a job.  Guess what.  They graduate something like 20 times
as many students as there are jobs in that field every year.  He ended
out doing retail for a living and volunteering at the Baltimore Aquarium
to keep his hand in Marine Biology.  Don't believe all you read in the
daily rags or event he trade journals.  It all just numbers until someone
interprets it.  And we all know what Mark Twain said: "There are lies,
damned lies and statistics."

> 
> 3) Repeating what was mentioned earlier,  the price !!!
> I am overwhelmed to hear that the amount of student debt
> in this country exceeds the general debt on credit cards.
 
Frequently, as I said above, for an education that was neither worth
what was paid ot necessary for a decent career.

Let me throw one more concept out here for consideration.

We have two Major Computer Programs here.  CS and CIS.  Which one do
you figure is most likely to lead to a real job?  We currently have one
student in the CIS program.

bill
 

-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
billg999 at cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>