[Info-vax] OT: obscure PDP11 OSes (even more dinosaury)

[Bill Gunshannon]

In article <2f70d$557ed38b$5ed4324a$44068 at news.ziggo.nl>,
	Dirk Munk <munk at home.nl> writes:
> bill at server3.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) wrote:
>> In article <1d839638-6951-4b1c-b10c-9ff0313d344b at googlegroups.com>,
>> 	johnwallace4 at yahoo.co.uk writes:
>>> On Friday, 12 June 2015 18:26:37 UTC+1, Alan Frisbie  wrote:
>>>> On 06/12/2015 07:14 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Oh, and there was another from DEC that I think would have been in the same
>>>>> class as VAXELN.  It was called IAS, I think.  But I know of no copies of it
>>>>> still inexistence.  At least I have never been able to get a copy anywhere.
>>>>
>>>> I have the distribution tapes for IAS v3.0.   They will be part of the
>>>> archive of 9-track tapes I am creating (TPC and TAP container files).
>>>> They are all 800 BPI, so they will get copied after I finish all the
>>>> 1600 BPI ones (I will have to switch to a different system and tape drive).
>>>>
>>>> IAS was a variant of RSX-11D, and I enjoyed using it back in the late 1970s.
>>>>
>>>> Right now, the project is on hold until I can get a replacement CPU daughterboard
>>>> for my Alpha XP1000.   It died last Friday, so I am currently Alpha-less.  :-(
>>>>
>>>> Alan Frisbie
>>>
>>> Good to hear that IAS isn't completely forgotten. I had the pleasure
>>> of working with it on 11/70 in the late 1970s, after it effectively
>>> replaced 11D. Another play one day might be fun.
>>>
>>> DECUS proceedings were forever full of folk complaining about sysgens
>>> on RSX. I didn't really understand, as SYSGEN was a largely foreign
>>> concept on 11D and (especially) IAS.
>>>
>>> John Harper's page on IAS:
>>> http://www.john-a-harper.com/ias.html
>>>
>>> I *thought* I'd seen an IAS3.1 downloadable somewhere but can't
>>> quickly find it, neither a local private copy nor a websearch
>>> reference. 3.0 seems relatively widely distributed, often on
>>> the darker fringes of the web, so a Known Trustworthy copy
>>> would be handy. Manuals seem to exist for IAS3.4 but I'd moved
>>> on to the world of VMS and UNIX by that time.
>>>
>>> Another PDP11 OS was Venix11, from Venturcom.
>>
>> Just another flavor of Unix.  If you have Ultrix-11 the rest are just
>> fluff.  :-)
>>
>>>
>>> Bill may have been getting muxed ip between MicroPower PASCAL
>>> (DEC-developed ROMable/netloadable RTOS with RT11 host toolkit
>>> for low end PDP11) and VAXELN. That well known auction site has
>>> a copy of Introduction to MicroPower Pascal AA-M388A-TC on offer
>>> for $16.25 at the moment.
>>>
>>> If it's just the manual's content you want, it's
>>> already on Bitsavers (thank you) e.g.
>>> /pdf/dec/pdp11/rt11/micropowerPascal/AA-M388A-TC_IntroToMicroPowerPascal_Jan82.pdf
>>>
>>> There's also a slight chance Bill may be thinking of VENIX11 from
>>> Venturcom, a UNIX V7 (?) derivative sold with alleged realtime
>>> capabilities (iirc - it was a loooong time ago).
>>>
>>
>> No, I think I just forgot that IAS was RSX-11 based.  But i am still
>> pretty sure it had real-time capabilities.  Venix I can't see doing
>> real-time.  The only machine I ever saw a version of Venix for was
>> the Pro and i can't imagine who would try running real-time on their
>> office automation machine.  :-)
>>
>> Of course, all of this still doesn't explain how the VAX was
>> "a best-seller" when compared to the PDP-11 when the PDP-11
>> sold 50% more systems.
>>
>> bill
>>
> 
> Because one VAX could do the work of several PDP-11's?

Maybe in later times, but the first VAX I worked on was a real dog
and I worked on several PDP-11's that outperformed it.  And, just
like the debates here over what Alpha might have become, IMHO the
PDP-11 could easily have kept up with the VAX.  All that would
have been needed, really, was a bigger address bus and being as
they had expanded it in the past, I don't think that was undoable.
As time went on they could have made a 32bit PDP-11 that maintained
16bit compatability at the hardware level.  Intel did it twice,
8088 to 80386 and 80386 to x86-64.  Things like Floating Point and
CIS could have been incorporated into the base architecture without
breaking anything.

Sorry, as much as I like the VAX, I think the PDP-11 was better.
Using the same argument we have heard here, what do yo think the
capabilites of a PDP-11 with no new features but made using current
technology for shrinks and clocking would be?  One screaming CPU.  :-)
How many RSTS/E users do you think could be supported on a 2.5Ghz
PDP-11/93 with 16GB of memory.  :-)

And X-11, too.  :-)

bill


-- 
Bill Gunshannon          |  de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n.  Three wolves
billg999 at cs.scranton.edu |  and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
University of Scranton   |
Scranton, Pennsylvania   |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>