[Info-vax] SQLite port for OpenVMS (Re: Is there currently a functioning link for hobbyist licenses?)

[Stephen Hoffman]

On 2015-03-11 17:29:49 +0000, Jan-Erik Soderholm said:

> Stephen Hoffman skrev den 2015-03-11 16:38:
>> On 2015-03-11 13:56:03 +0000, Jan-Erik Soderholm said:
>> 
>>> OK, I have read up a bit on SQLite. I have a hard time seeing why VMS
>>> would be a prime candidate for SQLite.
>> 
>> Vastly more flexible than RMS, and with much easier licensing and lower
>> costs than using Oracle Rdb or Oracle Classic, for starters.
>> 
>> That's before discussing and dealing with source code that already uses
>> SQLite, of course.
>> 
>>> Might work OK for Firefox to keep track of the setup things in the local
>>> browser, but that is a single user environment. OK, they say that SQLite
>>> is the most widely deployed database product in the world. Right, hard to
>>> beat 500 Miljon Firefox "users". But how many of them has actively
>>> selected SQLite? :-)
>> 
>> Far more than chose Oracle Rdb on an AlphaServer DS20 running OpenVMS
>> Alpha...
> 
> I do not think that even one single Firefox user has actively selected 
> SQLite! It just came embedded into the product...

We are in agreement specifically around Firefox users not picking and 
probably not knowing much about the presence of SQLite within that 
browser, but there are many more folks that likely did explicitly chose 
SQLite than chose an AlphaServer DS20 running OpenVMS.

>> most likely, and there are probably things in your environment that 
>> might work well with SQLite...
> 
> No, it would not.

Sure there are.    There are almost certainly database- and file-level 
activities and tasks in your environment where you would not pay for 
Oracle licenses, if you did not already have a license.

> There are so much missing from SQLlite that you normaly expect. Backup 
> handling. After image logging with roll forward after a restore. If you 
> crash you have nothing else then the last backup. No traces what so 
> ever from your updates done since last backup... "Work well"? :-)

You have an absolute laser focus on your own environment.  That's 
laudable, but it's also limiting.  Your environment is not the only 
environment around, it's probably not even a design that would be used 
now, and there are almost certainly parts of your current extended 
computing environment that do not require these cited database 
features, and there's also that the cost — outside of the fact that you 
already have Oracle licenses — would lead other folks to the use of 
SQLite for various applications.  It would not surprise me that there 
are uses of SQLite in your existing extended environment, too; embedded 
in various places.

> OK, that is not worse then using RMS without RMS Journaling, but it is 
> not something you expect from a database.
> 
> SQLite is of course not a usable replacement for something like Rdb (or 
> anything similar database product).

Sure it is.  Just not for you and your application.

>> SQLite is one of the stock databases on a number of platforms, and it 
>> embeds easily directly into applications.
> 
> Exactly. SQLite is primarily an "embedded database", either in 
> applications as such (Firefox) or into equipment such as tablets and 
> phones.

Also as a nice substitute for the sort of stuff that various OpenVMS 
applications use RMS for.

>> It's exceedingly popular in the embedded space,and it's quite popular 
>> on Linux, Android / ASOS, OS X, iOS and a number of other places...
> 
> Right. And that is also where VMS is used, is it?

SQLite has various and obvious applications on OpenVMS, whether you 
might recognize those and might have those, or not.

>> If you have a smart phone, you've almost certainly used apps that use SQLite.
> 
> I just could not care less, as long as my phone works.  Exactly what 
> has that to do with databases for VMS!?

Ayup.  About as much relevance as your Firefox users comment has to the 
number of folks that have explicitly chosen to use SQLite.  As for the 
database, most folks don't care about that either, as long as that 
works.  But seriously, if you cannot see the use of SQLite or other 
databases that aren't Oracle-class investments — whether elsewhere 
within your current environment, or in other OpenVMS environments that 
look nothing like yours, and in the many OpenVMS environments that lack 
Oracle licenses — then I doubt I can convince you otherwise.  As I've 
stated, SQLite looks like a nice replacement for what I'd have once 
used RMS files for, and the prototypes are certainly working out.




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