[Info-vax] Console optiosn on x86

[Stephen Hoffman]

On 2015-04-30 22:55:02 +0000, David Froble said:

> Stephen Hoffman wrote:
>> On 2015-04-30 15:52:17 +0000, David Froble said:
>> 
>>> What if VMS was able to use the provided drivers?
>> 
>> The EFI drivers at least on the older systems weren't all that fast — 
>> though probably more than fast enough for the console — while 
>> "wrapping" drivers from other operating systems akin to the now-stale 
>> NDISwrapper <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NDISwrapper> isn't all that 
>> easy to implement, and then there are the inevitable requirements to 
>> comply with licenses and copyrights.
>> 
>> Not sure why the console is suddenly even an issue, as getting serial 
>> I/O into and out of an x86-64 box is a solved problem.  Linux, BSD, 
>> even Weenix <http://weenix.cs.brown.edu/mediawiki/index.php/Weenix> at 
>> its simplest, and various other platforms.  There's also the 
>> little-known OpenVMS I64 platform that uses serial I/O support via 
>> EFI-based platforms, so....   There are bigger morasses elsewhere 
>> during a platform port.
> 
> I also question why JF has 'fixated" on OPA0.

How JF went from the use of EFI would make the whole x86-64 port 
trivial, to the difficulties of a console line, was interesting.

> There are always more than one method for doing things.  The console as 
> known on say a VAX isn't anything sacred.

EFI has the look of an engineering prototype that escaped into the wild 
a little prematurely.   It's not what I would term an exemplary user 
interface design.   Being better than BIOS is not a particularly high 
bar, though.

> Nor is the concept of a dedicated computer to front end the main 
> computer anything new.  Wasn't the 11/780, or another of the old VAXs 
> run using a PRO 350 or something like that as part of the console?

VAX-11/780 used an LSI-11, as did a few other members of that VAX 
family.  The Pro was used on the VAX 8800 and a few other members of 
that VAX family.

> Lots more cheap and capable stuff around these days.  Rasberry Pi ??

It'd almost certainly be an MP board - iLO, DRAC, whatever — as folks 
would want instrumentation and control, but yes.  The MPs aren't 
sophisticated or powerful computers.

> In a perfect world, the people who build devices and write drivers for 
> weendoze and Linux would also provide drivers, or parts of drivers and 
> complete specs, for other types of systems.  At a minimum there should 
> be adequate specs.

For some devices, there are specs.   With open-source, mid- and 
upper-end graphics and WiFi devices tend to be the most problematic.

> Also, perhaps market forces could help.  Support the documented 
> devices, people might use them more, and those not providing 
> documentation might either start doing so, or go out of business.

The mass market here is Windows and Windows Server, and the vendors 
support that or they perish.   There is a much smaller market for 
Linux, and there are some nice client offerings there.  
<http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-linux/pd>.   Windows Server 
works with most stuff, and Linux and BSD server support tends to be 
pretty good.  As yet, OpenVMS does not exist on x86-64.

VSI will undoubtedly pick some fairly generic servers and some generic 
hardware (and probably a VM or three), and will code to it.  What the 
chosen configurations will be, we don't yet know.

I expect to see VSI working with Nemonix and HP and potentially others 
to offer supported and qualified configurations, or whatever term is 
used.

But then VSI still has to sort out and publish their licensing and 
support plans, and a number of other details, and the customers then 
decide to buy or negotiate or wait or port elsewhere.  The folks at VSI 
will undoubtedly be adjusting some of those details over time, too.  
That, and VSI has to get to financial stability.  They've been 
operating for eight months now and with a growing staff and some 
non-trivial costs, and — until they have products — no obvious source 
of license or support revenues, AFAICT.



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