[Info-vax] Do you (or someone you work with) sysman on Windows?

[David Froble]

Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> Stephen Hoffman skrev den 2015-05-25 16:35:
>> On 2015-05-25 14:00:44 +0000, Jan-Erik Soderholm said:
>>
>>> ...
>>> DEC AXPVMS VMS V6.1      Oper System Install    04-MAY-1994
>>>
>>> Not the same physical disk, of course. But same system image that have
>>> moved from some RX2x disk to the current IBM DS8000 FRC SAN.
>>>
>>> I don't know it one should expect any problems with this, it works
>>> anyway... :-)
>>
>> With ~twenty years of customizations and tweaks and old workaround and
>> left-over settings and the rest, this is probably an irreproducible
>> environment.
>>
> 
> Of course it is reproducable. Just do a fresh install of 8.2 and
> add Rdb, CDD, compilers, ABC and everything else. Then we will
> end up with functionally the same system.
> 
> Now, an upgrade to 8.4 is probably the next step here. :-)

Without really understanding all that Steve's getting at here, perhaps 
my comments aren't appropriate.

Yes, there are problems in attempting to create a VMS environment, and 
then "cloning" it multiple times.  Nothing is perfect.  Some advances in 
allowing this might be one solution.

However, and as Jan-Erik mentions here, Some of us may not understand 
"customized VMS environments".  I don't think that I understand.  Well, 
I probably do, but consider, outside attempting to clone a system, there 
are very few things I do in the way of customization.

To me, you install the system, and it's there.  With the exception of 
decompressing libraries, setting up node names, DECnet and IP addresses, 
and such, it's ready for use.

Now, there is much more to be done in setting up users, setting up 
custom symbols and logicals, setting up the applications, and such. 
But, I for one don't consider that "customizing" VMS.  I also have such 
well documented (well, sort of) and in some command files and such.  For 
instance, and this is not a complete list.

Some things I want in the system startup.  When possible, this is one or 
more files that are invoked from SYSTARTUP_VMS.COM, and I also have a 
SYSTARTUP_BATCH.COM.

Some things I want each user to have.  SYLOGIN.COM is one place for 
such, and either your own custom command file can replace the 
boilerplate file provided with VMS, or, your stuff can be inserted into 
the boilerplate command file, or perhaps you call your custom stuff from 
the boilerplate command file (which still requires changes).

When possible, NO APPLICATION STUFF ON THE SYSTEM DISK !!!

So I don't see such a big problem.  VMS is VMS, if you don't go mucking 
with it, and I consider it prudent to do as little mucking as you can 
get away with.  There will be some, such as SYSGEN parameters, but even 
here, if you have 300 systems all doing the same thing, then placing the 
common mucking on each system isn't too big of a task.

Is there room for improvement?  Always!  It's defining useful 
improvement that is the task.

Not having to decompress libraries would be a help.  It is one reason, 
among others, that people try to clone a system disk.  If the 
installation of VMS gave what is needed without all the special steps, 
perhaps people would not attempt to clone so much.

I've got a weendoze utility that sets DST dates.  Real easy to use. 
Much easier than anything available on VMS.  And, this is a simple 
application.  Why cannot some simple application(s) be provided with VMS 
to perform some tasks, such as time set-up, node set-up, and such 
things?  These would be great improvements.  Perhaps some such would 
require modifications of the OS to provide such capability.  I'd think 
not.  I'd figure the locations for certain data already exist, it's just 
the modification of the data that is less than easy.

But, I don't see being able to avoid site specific customization, on 
VMS, or any other OS.  At least I cannot.  Perhaps others might be able 
to do so.