[Info-vax] Container files are set to grow in importance on the IT road ahead

[Kerry Main]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Info-vax [mailto:info-vax-bounces at info-vax.com] On Behalf Of
> John Reagan via Info-vax
> Sent: 05-Feb-16 10:53 AM
> To: info-vax at info-vax.com
> Cc: John Reagan <xyzzy1959 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [New Info-vax] Container files are set to grow in importance
> on the IT road ahead
> 
> On Friday, February 5, 2016 at 8:50:06 AM UTC-5, Kerry Main wrote:
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Info-vax [mailto:info-vax-bounces at info-vax.com] On Behalf
> Of hb
> > > via Info-vax
> > > Sent: 04-Feb-16 12:03 PM
> > > To: info-vax at info-vax.com
> > > Cc: hb <end.of at inter.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [New Info-vax] Container files are set to grow in
> importance
> > > on the IT road ahead
> > >
> > > On 02/04/2016 03:40 PM, Craig A. Berry wrote:
> > > > On 2/4/16 7:54 AM, Kerry Main wrote:
> > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>> From: Info-vax [mailto:info-vax-bounces at info-vax.com] On
> Behalf
> > > Of hb
> > > >
> > > >>> Hard links do not point from one disk to another. So something
> else
> > > was
> > > >>> used by GNV.
> > > >
> > > >> Well, there must be a hard or soft link of some sort because after
> the
> > > >> fact,
> > > >> I did a dir... on all the non-system disk GNV sub directories and a
> > > >> number
> > > >> of system dir's showed up. Hence, the original delete/tree cmd
> > > continued
> > > >> deleting on the system disk.
> > > >
> > > > It's possible that the POSIX root business and related mount points
> are
> > > > what you tripped over.  If you figure out how those things work,
> please
> > > > explain them to me :-).  I don't know if "SET NOROOT" or "SET ROOT
> > > NL:"
> > > > might've prevented the disaster, but they'd be worth a try.  Or
> umnt
> > > on
> > > > whatever mount points were aimed at your system disk, if any.
> > > >
> > >
> > > It's all open source so it is easy to understand :-) I know nothing
> > > about these mount points and mnt/umnt. I would expect mnt to
> mount
> > > any
> > > VMS directory into the POSIX file system tree. The output of mnt
> seems
> > > to support this:
> > > bash-4.3$ mnt
> > > DISK$ODS5_1:[VMS$COMMON.gnv]usr.DIR;1 on /usr
> > > DISK$ODS5_1:[VMS$COMMON.gnv]man.dir;1 on /man
> > > DISK$ODS5_1:[VMS$COMMON.gnv]lib.DIR;1 on /lib
> > > DISK$ODS5_1:[VMS$COMMON.gnv]include.dir;1 on /include
> > > DISK$ODS5_1:[VMS$COMMON.gnv]etc.dir;1 on /etc
> > > DISK$ODS5_1:[VMS$COMMON.gnv]bin.DIR;1 on /bin
> > > bash-4.3$
> > > So I can think of an environment where the POSIX root is in a
> > > sub-directory of the installed GNV kit - on a non-system disk, and a
> > > (default/customized?) mount point under the root mounts a
> directory
> > > from
> > > the system disk. I didn't try but it is quite possible that a VMS DIR
> > > and/or DELETE will follow the mount points (which in the SHOW ROOT
> > > directory look like directories - as far as I can see) from the
> > > non-system disk to the system disk.
> > >
> > > I really would like to know how the directory structure was, before it
> > > was deleted. And I still think that DELETE/TREE is innocent, here, as a
> > > "normal" DELETE with "..." would have done the same damage.
> >
> > Just to clarify - I also do not believe the delete/tree has an issue.
> >
> > It is much more likely due the way the GNV kit is setup with hard/soft
> > links and the fact that I installed the kit on a non-system disk.
> >
> > Having stated this, it is a big wake-up call (for me anyway) as I would
> > never have expected a delete/tree cmd on a non-system disk to go off
> > and start deleting many system files on the system disk .. when $ Help
> xxx
> > says something to the effect "file not found", you know you are in
> trouble.
> 
> Yep and GNV stopped doing that.  It wasn't good to put indirect access to
> system files from the non-system disk.  However, you must have done
> that DEL/TREE with privs enabled, right?  The standard protection checks
> would prevent a non-priv'd user from deleting those files regardless of
> how you got there.

Re: priv's enabled .. yeas, was using SYSTEM to install GNV

Btw, what do you mean when you say GNV stopped doing that? 

This happened approx. 2 weeks ago using the latest GNV kit.

HP-i64vms-gnv-v0300-001-1.zip

Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com