[Info-vax] Where to locate software

[Kerry Main]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Info-vax [mailto:info-vax-bounces at info-vax.com] On Behalf Of
> Stephen Hoffman via Info-vax
> Sent: 10-Jun-16 11:11 AM
> To: info-vax at info-vax.com
> Cc: Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh at hoffmanlabs.invalid>
> Subject: Re: [New Info-vax] Where to locate software
> 
> On 2016-06-10 02:20:51 +0000, David Froble said:
> 
> > I have run multiple applications on a single VMS system.  I've even
> > seen multiple companies using the same VMS system.  It can be done,
> if
> > the people doing it have half a clue.
> 
> That this is feasible is without question feasible.   It's getting two
> (or more) arbitrary software packages with arbitrary dependencies to
> arbitrarily and repeatedly and reliably install and upgrade and to
> cleanly deinstall where this — as OpenVMS is presently implemented —
> gets interesting.  It's certainly manually possible, but that tends to
> delve far too deeply into the RTFM territory.  And we all know that
> automation beats RTFM.   Further down the road from how OpenVMS
> operates, this is also distributed updates via (for instance) RSS and
> HTTPS and signed apps, and how vulnerable or even malicious apps are
> isolated from each other with an effort toward avoiding wider breaches.
> 
> *This* is why I rant about PCSI and patch distribution and app
> isolation and certificate distributions and secure password storage and
> package management and better tools.
> 
> Because if you're doing one server, then manual processes and skilled
> dev-ops folks can and does usually does work fine.   If you're doing
> five servers or if you're working with products whose developers have
> chosen to implement RTFM and (for whatever reason) not expend the
> effort on "it just works" in their packages, this gets tedious.   If
> you're doing fifty or five hundred servers or if you need rapid updates
> due to security vulnerabilities or other serious issues, you're in deep
> sneakers.   And most everything here is only going to need to happen
> faster.
> 
> *This* is app stacking and containers and sandboxes.
> 

No. App stacking is not only possible, but it is has been part of the culture
of OpenVMS Customer environments for decades. 

The challenge with commodity OS's is that while there may be some
layered on solutions like .Net to help address some of the challenges,
they still have a huuuge issue where the 90's distributed systems culture 
simply does not want or think that putting multiple bus apps on the same 
OS instance is a good thing - usually because it means different groups 
might have to talk to each other and/or follow the same standards.

Now, what you are talking about is improving automation of config and 
security changes to deal with larger numbers of OpenVMS servers to 
reduce the impact of manual processes and that  Is certainly something 
I do agree with.

Keep in mind though that there are also commercial support applications
available that help with this automation. When one has larger numbers 
of servers, it often makes more sense to buy commercial support
applications for automation than to try and build these on your own.

In addition, server vendors like HPE are embedding OS independent 
provisioning technologies in their new (albeit X86-64 only) server 
architectures.

As an example: HPE's Next Gen Blade Server Web site: (scroll down)
https://www.hpe.com/info/synergy

See page 11 of this WP for composer and streamer components:
https://www.hpe.com/h20195/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=4AA6-3257EEW&doctype=Technical%20white%20paper&doclang=EN_GB&searchquery=&cc=us&lc=en

Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com