[Info-vax] Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

[VAXman- at SendSpamHere.ORG]

In article <nkh313$ekh$1 at Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
>On 2016-06-23 18:06, VAXman- at SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>> In article <nkgspt$rm$2 at Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>, Johnny Billquist <bqt at softjar.se> writes:
>>> This whole thread came about because some people pointed out that exact
>>> file sizes, to the byte, sometimes were wanted. And then it's been a
>>> thread of "why?". And when I give an example of why, it becomes a thread
>>> of "why?".
>>>
>>> Yes, I know VMS couldn't care less. RSX also couldn't care less. Me,
>>> writing an http server (as well as an ftp server), do care. And doing
>>> these things, which many people consider to be pretty basic tools that
>>> all systems should have, is a pain because the file system do not have
>>> this information.
>>>
>>> Yes, there are solutions. They are costly. Could there possibly be a
>>> point in adding this information, if it can be done at a low cost?
>>>
>>> You are just putting your head in the sand and saying that since it's
>>> not there, we don't need it.
>>
>> Why pay for it when you don't need it?  Pay for it when you do!
>
>Which, for a web server, is every time a document is requested, which 
>might mean a dozen requests for a single page. And that is just one 
>example. And for a 10M document, calculating the size every time is 
>pretty costly... Reading through 10M to find the size, and then read 
>through it again, to deliver it. Color me not-excited.

Again, that's not a VMS problem; it's your/the protocol.  Perhaps, instead
of about it complaining here, you should complain to the IETF. ;)

VMS moved files over the network without having to know the precise number
of bytes it has to move before doing so, so there could and there should 
and there are alternative ways this can be accomplished without knowing a
count beforehand.

*IF* you need to transfer your files as you state, then choose your file's
record formats appropriately and you should be able to compute the file's
byte count from readily available info. ;)  But don't force an unnecessary
burden on my files because you need some data that's of no consequence to
me.  

HP Alliance One distributes PAKs as a text file that is stream (chock full
of <CR>s and <LF>s).  I'm supposed to execute this to install the Alliance
One PAKs.  Some people (on VMS) find this a nuisance because of the <CR>s
and <LF>s littering the data (because it's delivered via HTTP from HP's A1
web site) cause DCL to complain.  I simply change the file's attributes to
RFM=STM and all's well.  You, too, could convert your files to RFM=STM and
then, your prayers have been answered.  What YOU want to transmit via HTTP
is all right there in the file and you should be able to compute the file
size as well.  But, it's so much easier to fault VMS, its file system, and
RMS because it's not understood.

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.