[Info-vax] EDTINI.EDT Issues

[Paul Richards]

Stephen Hoffman wrote:

> On 2016-06-28 00:25:34 +0000, Paul Richards said:
> 
> > Tony: I'm new to OpenvMS so please bear wth me.
> 
> Welcome to OpenVMS.
> 
> Please read the user's manual; the introductory guide to OpenVMS.  If
> you don't read the user manual, please expect a very long and very
> confusing slog as you sort out how things work.  OpenVMS is almost
> certainly not like any other system you've used before, and it has
> different tools, different commands and different terminology.
> Trying to port over knowledge of Windows or Unix will not end well,
> in general — OpenVMS is different.
> 
> Here is the User's Manual:
> 
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731final/6489/6489pro.html  (HTML)
> http://h20565.www2.hpe.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c04623
> 190  (PDF)
> 
> Also see the OpenVMS Beginner's FAQ:
> 
> http://saf.bio.caltech.edu/vms_beginners_faq.html
> 
> In this FAQ, see the section on EDT initialization files.  (That
> section shows using a logical name that EDT will use when invoked,
> too.  That avoids needing to explicitly reference the initialization
> file when you invoke the editor.  More on this later.)
> 
> > It is not clear to me which variant of EDT (TPU/EDT/EVE) is loaded
> > when  EDIT is invoked.
> 
> You are not invoking EDT.
> 
> Micro-history: EDT is effectively deprecated and is a very limited
> editor, with the main goal of that was command-level and source code
> compatibility with the EDT editor on RSX-11M — an operating system
> from the 1970s — and on some other and similarly-old text editors
> from that era.    While there are folks that will certainly never be
> dragged off of EDT, EDIT /TPU (the so-called EVE text editor) was
> supposed to replace most uses of EDT many years ago (starting back
> around 1993), though other text editors are optionally available for
> OpenVMS including ports of vim, emacs, microemacs and some others,
> and commercial packages including DECset LSEDIT.
> 
> If you want to explicitly invoke EDT, then the command is EDIT/EDT.
> 
> If you want to pass EDT commands to a text editor, then that editor
> must be EDT or EDT-compatible.  Passing EDT commands to a different
> editor doesn't work, as you've discovered.   In your case, you're
> invoking the EDIT /TPU editor known as EVE.
> 
> Here's an overview of the EDIT command, from the system help library.
> If you're at all familiar with Unix man pages, the help library is
> similar, but rather more limited in terms of navigation commands,
> searching and related.
> 
> ++++++++++ ++++++++++
> $ help edit
> 
> EDIT
> 
>    The EDIT commands perform the following functions:
> 
>    o  Invoke the Access Control List Editor to create or modify an
>       access control list for an object (see /ACL).
> 
>    o  Invoke the EDT screen-oriented editor (see /EDT).
> 
>    o  Invoke the FDL editor to create and modify File Definition
>       Language files (see /FDL).
> 
>    o  Invoke the SUMSLP batch-oriented editor to update a single input
>       file with multiple files of edit commands (see /SUM).
> 
>    o  Invoke the TECO editor (see /TECO).
> 
>    o  Invoke the TPU editor (see /TPU).
> 
> 
>  Additional information available:
> 
>  /ACL       /EDT       /FDL       /SUM       /TECO      /TPU
> 
> EDIT Subtopic?
> ++++++++++ ++++++++++
> 
> > Is this defined somewhere? Where?
> 
> You were previously pointed to DCL commands similar to the following
> two commands, which set up a symbol (E) that invokes the EDT text
> editor.   These symbols are usually set up in your LOGIN.COM login
> command procedure, so you'll have these available each time you log
> into OpenVMS.   Invoke them live at the DCL $ prompt if you want,
> that works too.   If you want to pass those EDTINI commands to the
> EDT editor, then you will want to use the second command shown, with
> that second command assuming that your EDT initialization file is
> located in your SYS$LOGIN login directory and named EDTINI.EDT.   If
> it's not, you'll have to change that part of the command to reflect
> the location and name of the file.   You can also set up a logical
> name EDTINI, which will work automatically with the first command
> below.  See the EDT documentation or the OpenVMS beginner's FAQ
> mentioned earlier for details on that.
> 
> $ E :== EDIT/EDT
> 
> $ E :== EDIT/EDT/COMMAND=sys$login:EDTINI.EDT
> 
> > I tried $ EDIT /TPU /INIT=EDTINI.EDT NESTTEST.COB. I get a message
> > 'Did  not finish execution of initialization file:
> > sys$common:[sysmgr]edtini.edt'. There were a couple of messages
> > before  this but they disappeared before I could read them.
> 
> Passing commands for EDT into the EDIT /TPU (the EVE editor) won't
> work.
> 
> > I've stripped edtini.edt down to contain only the Function key
> > definitions and this seems to have worked but I still get the error
> > message.
> 
> You could add a shakespearean sonnet in there, and EDIT /TPU (EVE)
> will return errors.
> 
> > As far as a keyboard is concerned I'm running on a PC laptop with a
> > numeric keypad and PuTTy so I get, for example 'Num Lock' = PF1
> > (Find),  '/' = PF2 (Help), '*' = PF3 (Change Direction), '-' = PF4
> > (Command) and the text editing control keys all work e.g. Ctrl-B,
> > Ctrl-E etc.
> 
> We've just been discussing that mess in another thread; OpenVMS
> doesn't do well with other keyboards (it works, but the users get to
> figure that part out), and the documentation and even some of the
> developers persist in using DEC LK-series keyboards that just aren't
> available (new) anymore rather than using and documenting what is
> available for keyboards.   You'll have to determine the mapping for
> the PC keyboard and the particular terminal emulator you're using.
> (I don't have Microsoft Windows around and use a terminal emulator
> other than PuTTY, and a different keyboard layout than you're likely
> using.)
> 
> > I have a document which shows all these keys and it appears to be
> > an  EVE document.
> 
> EVE is the name of a text editor on OpenVMS, not a document type or
> document format.
> 
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/73final/6021/6021pro.html (HTML)
> http://h20565.www2.hpe.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c04623
> 112 (PDF)
> 
> > So I'm happy (mostly) with the key definitions but I want to find
> > out  why I'm getting the error messages. Also, based on the
> > previous  paragraph, what keypad am I emulating? (I said I was a
> > newbie :-))
> 
> Again: please read the user manual.  Your experience with other
> systems will not serve you well with learning OpenVMS, as OpenVMS is
> quite different from most other systems.  The user's manual will get
> you the terms and concepts, which will also avoid confusion here —
> such as what I'm referring to with my use of "symbol" and "logical
> name" here.   Those don't work the same as on some other systems,
> either.
> 
> After the user manual, either the Programming Concepts Manual or the
> System Managers' manuals, depending on which direction you're
> interested in heading with OpenVMS.
> 
> More documentation:
> 
> The OpenVMS documentation from HPE:
> 
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/os84_index.html
> 
> The archived EDT documentation:
> 
> http://h20565.www2.hpe.com/hpsc/doc/public/display?docId=emr_na-c04623
> 261 (PDF)
> 
> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/os84_index.html
> 
> Other HPE OpenVMS products:
> 
> http://www8.hp.com/us/en/products/servers/openvms/documents.html

Stephen: thanks you for the reply. Believe me, I have the various
OpenVMS HTNL documents permanently set up in tabs in my browser.

So if EDT is deprecated and I want to use EVE/TPU is there a mechanism
(similar to EDTINI.EDT) for passing things like function key
definitions into EDIt/EVE/TPU?

> EVE is the name of a text editor on OpenVMS, not a document type or
> document format.

I realise that. What I meant was that the document makes reference to
EVE. Now it also mentions an EVE$INIT.EVE file - maybe this is what I'm
looking for (answering my own question) and I should create this file
and put my definitions into it.

My confusion stems from not really knowing the difference between EDT
and EVE.

Just for the record I am familiar with several operating systems apart
from Windows e.g. Unix, Linux, OS/2, OpenSTEP, HP's MPE/ix, these last
three I have running in VMs.

-- 
Paul
Melbourne, Australia

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