[Info-vax] Updated HPE/VSI OpenVMS V8.4-2L1 Marketing Brochures

[IanD]

On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 5:44:59 PM UTC+11, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article <eb43b5c8-c59c-4885-af55-30f3c3874e0c at googlegroups.com>, IanD
> <iloveopenvms at gmail.com> writes: 
> 

<snip>
> 
> Is it some open-source tool which posts paragraph-long lines to a
> text-based newsgroup, causing them to be unnecessarily base-64 encoded?
> 

I access it however I see fit using what tool I have available. Some are open source, some are not. 
Care to highlight the difference between the open source ones I'm using and the one's not? 

If you have an issue perhaps a polite post rather than a snide remark might get you further, then again, perhaps it's a character thing

> If people are brain-washed like this, that's not the mentality I want 
> working on VMS.
> 

Brainwashed... oh dear, we're sliding further down the evolutionary slope of decency

Besides that, you have just perfectly demonstrated a facet of why open source works. Open source attracts all sorts of people with different thinking so that the full 360 degree spectrum is covered versus someone who thinks they hold a monopoly on what constitutes good VMS thinking

> > I advocate open source because I happen to think it's another way to remove=
> >  the stumbling blocks that OpenVMS is already facing and it doesn't need mo=
> > re stumbling blocks, it needs to make itself as attractive as possible
> 
> What are the stumbling blocks?  How will people familiar with OTHER 
> open-source products be able to solve them?  Who will make sure that 
> there is some quality control?  Who will pay them?

Where is Linux today compared to OpenVMS? Years ahead and the gap is growing

Where is Windows today compared to OpenVMS? Years ahead and the gap is growing

Please enlighten us on the following...

How do you think VMS is going to catch up or stop being left behind? Doing a redhat perhaps? Redhat usurped open source indirectly by piggybacking on Linux and open source and monetised it for their own profit. I'm merely advocating VMS look to do something similar and piggyback on what is clearly working

Apart from existing customers, how do you propose to attract new customers to VMS?
Through organic growth or tapping into an existing open source code base out there? Which one do you think will create the largest growth and bring the quickest dividends?

How do you propose to attract new developers to VMS?
Do you have contacts in the education sector? I do and I can tell you with 100% certainly that open source virtually totally dominates here. Perhaps your snide remark about brainwashing might have been better focused pointing out what the education sector is doing to young minds when it comes to pushing ideas and ideals because these are the people you need to attract to VMS

As for computing languages, the one's attracting the largest base of current coders and future are in fact open sourced based one's or moving towards it

Java will go some of the way to helping code being ported over the VMS but it's hardly going to drive new innovation to be developed on the VMS platform. 
VMS will be a target for deployment not the home for software development for large scale projects other than specific projects targeting VMS itself and I think that number will be tiny on actual VMS

Browse GitHub and see what's coming down the pipeline and then enlighten us how VMS is going to be playing in these future arena's and working with even a fraction of these endeavours without an open source presence and/or open source focus or embracing open source?

VMS is closed source and it appears the licence agreement will keep it that way, that's ok but it doesn't mean that going forward open source cannot be looked at for newer aspects of the OS or do you somehow think that VSI can keep up with Linux with it's 10's of 1000's of contributors who are moving it's innovation further along at an accelerating pace. 

Do you think VSI will keep pace with what's coming down the pipeline in Linux? It's going to take VSI 2 - 3 years more just to move VMS to x86. What is Linux going to bring to IT in this time?

On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 5:40:59 PM UTC+11, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
> In article <27c6e2e0-e540-4eca-bd63-78af2b48c780 at googlegroups.com>,
> clairgrant71 at gmail.com writes: 
> 
> > The VSI/HPE agreement does not allow us to make VMS open source.
> 
> And a good thing that is too.
> 
> For the first time since sometime BEFORE the demise of DEC, VMS is in 
> the hands of people who know it well and care about it.  While there is 
> a fear that it might be too little too late, let's give them a chance 
> and see what happens.

DEC failed, it's as simple as that

Having the best custodians in the world doesn't buy success. History is littered with examples of companies who failed because they failed to adapt to what was actually wanted

Best intent doesn't produce sales or attract people and businesses to systems, Market forces win's that game and the market at the moment is telling the world Linux and open source is where you need to be - you can cry a river over the right or wrong of that and it will not change a thing, it's what business believe they need

VSI's actions have slowed the tide of VMS sites rushing for the door, as to wether they have stopped it or reversed it will remain to be seen

Is it too late? Who really knows. All I know is they are doing 'something'. Is it Technically or Marketing wise or Education wise, enough? 
Who knows, we will all have our specific view here and time will tell what actually ends up happening

On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 6:01:15 AM UTC+11, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2016-09-30, IanD <iloveopenvms at gmail.com> wrote:
> >

<snip>

> 
> If teaching today is only about assembling existing bricks into higher
> level structures and not about making the bricks themselves, then who
> teaches the people needed to design and build the next generation
> of bricks ?
> 
> Simon.
> 
> -- 
> Simon Clubley, clubley at remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
> Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world

Don't shoot the messenger please!

I'm just relaying what the education sector is doing, I'm not endorsing it or saying I agree with it. I was pointing out the mentality of the sector and by comparison showing were VMS I think is relative to that model

The education sector stopped producing thinking and inquiring minds long ago

They pump out graduates who are productive, not innovative. They have succumbed to market forces pushed by the agenda of big business, who want productive people not so much thinkers unless that thinking can be monetised

The innovators and developers are the breakaways who either get fed up with the education sector and make their escape or they are developed in labs somewhere in the deep learning centres of the likes of Google etc