[Info-vax] What would you miss if DECnet got the chop? Was: "bad select 38" (OpenSSL on VMS)

[Dirk Munk]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Dirk Munk  <munk at home.nl> wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> Dirk Munk  <munk at home.nl> wrote:
>>>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>> Jan-Erik Soderholm  <jan-erik.soderholm at telia.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we have to accept that the rest of the world selected
>>>>>> TCPIP for networking.
>>>>>
>>>>> And, that being the case, we need to have the same features that
>>>>> people
>>>>> have liked with DECNET (such as the remote save sets) available with > IP.
>>>>
>>>> YOU ALREADY HAVE THOSE FEATURES !!!!! IT IS CALLED DECNET OVER IP !!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Why on earth would any one try to invent something that is already
>>>> there, that is plain silly. No other OS could use those features.
>>>
>>> There's the problem right there.  "No other OS could use those features."
>>>
>>> Maybe I want to put my remote saveset on a Solaris machine.  Maybe I
>>> want to put it on a disk appliance.  We live in a world where we need
>>> to coexist.
>>
>> You create a container file on any OS, and offer that container file
>> over iSCSI to VMS. VMS will see a volume, you can format that volume
>> with VMS, and use it to store data.
>> The host operating system will only see a very big file, it can not look
>> inside the container disk for individual VMS files..
>
> That doesn't sound very much like compatibility to me.
>
> Sheesh, just give me a standardized shared filesystem over IP, that I can
> address from the command line.   With good performance.  I don't even care
> what kind it is as long as it's standard and widely-compatible.
>
> There was a time when DECNET was a great thing.  Back in those days, my
> employers ran a network with over a thousand DECNET notes in several
> areas.  We were on NREN so that we could readily copy a file over to a
> university in Spain or vice-versa.  It was great.  If anything went wrong,
> I could call the networking office and they would fix it because everybody
> there knew DECNET.
>
> The last two DECNET nodes shut down a couple years ago, after a decade or
> so of being tunnelled through IP and a decade of my having to listen to
> the networking guys about "those weird-ass servers."
>

Yes, and if you had switched to DECnet Phase V over IP, your network 
guys would never have known you're using DECnet. No need for tunnels, 
completely transparent.

If your community would have done that, you still could be using DECnet. 
In fact if you're still using VMS, you can set it up now, it will take 
about 15 minutes per server, and you will have your full DECnet 
functionality back. Except for perhaps some firewall settings (port 
numbers), your  network guys will have no idea.


> It was here, and it was good, and it was widely compatible.  But it's not
> here any more, it's not good any more, and it sure isn't compatible with
> anything much any more.  There was a time when it would have been possible
> to extend it and keep it living, but that window closed long ago.  It's
> time to leave it dead and stop wasting time, energy, and money that could
> be spent taking care of the living.
>
> It's time to let it go along with SNA and Appletalk...
> --scott
>

Appletalk changed from the Appletalk/Ethertalk transport protocols to 
the IP transport protocol. Windows changed from the Netbeui transport 
protocol to IP. And DECnet can use IP as well.