[Info-vax] RDB Question

[Dave Froble]

On 12/2/2018 12:06 PM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
> Den 2018-12-02 kl. 17:15, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>> On 12/2/18 11:06 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> On 12/2/2018 9:42 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>> On 12/1/18 10:48 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>> On 12/1/2018 6:41 PM, Richard Maher wrote:
>>>>>> On 25/11/2018 9:36 pm, Kerry Main wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Info-vax <info-vax-bounces at rbnsn.com> On Behalf Of Richard
>>>>>>>> Maher
>>>>>>>> via Info-vax
>>>>>>>> Sent: November 24, 2018 9:37 PM
>>>>>>>> To: info-vax at rbnsn.com
>>>>>>>> Cc: Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Info-vax] RDB Question
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 24/11/2018 9:20 am, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 10/28/2018 9:59 AM, Kerry Main wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> For future consideration:
>>>>>>>>>> <http://sharksql.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pretty cool stuff ..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Very interesting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Did they actually sell this?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It seems to be similar to MS LINQ but just for C.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Arne
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LINQ is a fucking desease! Designed for useless OO programmers who
>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>> know SQL or the importants of a properly designed DB.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just like React/Reduct, Vue, Angular, Typescrip, Babel, JSX, etc
>>>>>>>> are for
>>>>>>>> wanker OO programmers who don't no the DOM, Javascript, HTMLS,
>>>>>>>> and CSS
>>>>>>>> :-(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Richard - I am curious to hear what you think about this:
>>>>>>> <http://sharksql.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See presentation on capabilities under Documentation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kerry Main
>>>>>>> Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds really good. My question is "Why?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good to have if Oracle abandons VMS but that would be enough to
>>>>>> kill VMS
>>>>>> on its own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like another who doesn't get out much.
>>>>>
>>>>> Richard, do you think everyone using VMS also uses Oracle?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Uh, Dave, Oracle is also the sole provider for RDB.  If they
>>>> abandon VMS RDB goes the way of the dodo, too.
>>>>
>>>> bill
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's my assumption that Richard was not talking about Rdb.
>>>
>>> VMS is the only user of Rdb.  To stop providing it for VMS means to
>>> totally abandon the product.
>>
>> If they are abandoning VMS how would they continue to maintain RdB?
>>
>>>                                Doesn't seem a wise move for what
>>> might be a profitable product.
>>
>> Like most of the IT world today I doubt they see anything VMS as
>> potentially profitable.
>>
>>>                          Not claiming Larry is wise, but, he's wise
>>> enough to own an island in Hawaii.
>>>
>>> Regardless, I'll extend my question to Rdb.
>>>
>>> Does anyone think that everyone using VMS also uses Rdb?
>>
>> I expect that number is very small.  I know that when the University
>> was still a VMS shop we used Oracle, and not RdB.  Over the years I
>> have worked with a number of other VMS shops some government, some
>> DOD, other education sites and small business sites.  I have never
>> seen RdB.
>>
>
> Both Classic and Rdb was once popular on VMS. But of course (and not
> counting the applications) it is easier to move a Classic database
> off VMS to something else, than to move/port an Rdb database.

A rather important point.  Probably much easier for an Oracle Classic 
user to move off VMS, and therefore for those desiring to do so, more of 
them would have left.

> But then, I do not understand why David pushed that "everyone uses Rdb".

I didn't.  I was replying to Richard's claim.  Read above.

> No one has ever claimed that. What has been said is that enough of the
> VMS users run Rdb to be an issue if Rdb would be removed from the picture.

And I do believe that.  Rdb was/is popular with some VMS users.  Nor did 
they have an easy path to move from VMS, so probably many are still on 
VMS.  I don't know the numbers.  VSI and Oracls most likely do have a 
decent idea of the numbers.

> Of course not *every* VMS installation uses Rdb. But enough of them to be
> a serious issue for the VMS users at large.

Losing any VMS users would be a bad thing for VSI, and for the rest of us.

>  > I have never seen RdB.

Bill must not get out much either ....

:-)

> What one single poster here has seen or not seen, doesn't matter much.
> How many current customer meeting have you attended lately?

And this was my point with Richard.  His world is not everyone's world.

>>>                                                           Although, I
>>> will stipulate that all Rdb users also use VMS.
>>>
>>> Just saying, I think Richard has some tunnel vision.  He uses Oracle,
>>> therefore everyone must use Oracle.  It just ain't so.
>>
>> I think it is more-so than you think.  I would bet that of those
>> VMS users with VMS based DBs there are more Oracle than RdB.
>>
>
> I might have been like that some time. But remember that the run-time
> option for Rdb was once included in the base VMS licence. And also
> that moving a Classic DB to something else is easier then porting
> an Rdb DB to something else.
>
> One also has to count not the number of users of VMS, but the total
> market value (the net income for VSI) for those sites. A few large
> banks using Rdb can easily outnumber a number of smaller non-Rdb sites.

Yep!  Money talks ....

-- 
David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450
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