[Info-vax] Vax Station 4000 VLC

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 12/26/18 11:08 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 12/26/2018 8:47 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> On 12/26/18 7:01 AM, Jan-Erik Söderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2018-12-26 kl. 10:06, skrev Phillip Helbig (undress to reply):
>>>> In article <pvudfi$ouc$1 at dont-email.me>,
>>>> =?UTF-8?Q?Jan-Erik_S=c3=b6derholm?= <jan-erik.soderholm at telia.com>
>>>> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> If you have your VMS system accessed in a terminal window or a tab
>>>>> in your browser, you do not have to "go to a different machine" to
>>>>> access anything else from the web. Or write a Word document. Or
>>>>> check your mails on the corporate MS Exchange systems.
>>>>
>>>> It starts when you download something in a web browser.  If I want that
>>>> file on VMS, if I have no browser on VMS, I have to transfer it from
>>>> another machine.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Extremely easy to do. Usually just a single (S)FTP copy. It's not
>>> like you have to carry around a disk-pack or something...
>>>
>>> Constantly asking for special treatment (browsers, keyboards and such)
>>> just to use a VMS system, is not doing VMS any good.
>>
>> Not providing the same level of service provided by all of VMS's
>> competitors is not doing VMS any good, either.
> 
> Ok, the thread seems to have moved on from "proper keyboard", which 
> isn't something provided by any OS vendor, to browsers.  So I'll ask, 
> what OS vendors provide a browser as part of the OS?

Depending totally on semantics, all of them that actually matter
in the IT world today.

> 
> Yes, there might be an argument that WEENDOZE comes with a browser, 
> though I seem to recall some actions in the past where there was some 
> legal issues with this concept.

The legal issue wasn't about providing one it was about blocking
others.

> 
> But what about Unix and the many flavors of Linux?  I'm not talking 
> about what might be provided as part of a distribution.  I'm talking 
> about vendor developed.

Define "vendor".  All of the current browsers, except one, are
developed by third party sources.  Why should it be otherwise?
No one here is asking VSI to develop a web browser.  Only to
provide the OS necessary parts to run one.

> 
> The real problem here is that Phillip wants whatever he wants, but, one 
> should keep a level playing field.  If some of the utilities available 
> with other operating systems actually come from third parties, then why 
> should VMS be held to a higher standard?  

They are not.  All most people would ask was the ability to use
those third party provided tools on VMS as well as Linux and
Windows.

>                                           Good case in point, a "proper 
> keyboard".  What Linux distribution includes a keyboard?

Well, I have to admit I failed to understand the relevance of that
to a discussion regarding VMS.  To the best of my knowledge, VMS
Engineering never provided keyboards.  :-)

> 
> Now, if the problem is that if some browser, for example Firefox, 
> doesn't run on VMS, then complain to the Firefox people.  Good luck with 
> that.

Why? what responsibility does Firefox have to support anything?  I can
assure you if Linux suddenly changed to make Firefox incompatible if
the propblem got fixed it would be a long time coming.

There are other OSes not supported by third party Open Source software.
The fall  in the same category as VMS.  Pr1mos for example.  OS2200
also come to mind.

bill