[Info-vax] Vax Station 4000 VLC

[Stephen Hoffman]

On 2018-12-26 16:08:09 +0000, Dave Froble said:

> Ok, the thread seems to have moved on from "proper keyboard", which 
> isn't something provided by any OS vendor, to browsers.  So I'll ask, 
> what OS vendors provide a browser as part of the OS?

Client operating systems?  Outside of embedded clients, all of them 
include a web browser.

The "proper keyboard" is something close to the layout of whatever 
keyboard Microsoft is currently expecting.

> Yes, there might be an argument that WEENDOZE comes with a browser, 
> though I seem to recall some actions in the past where there was some 
> legal issues with this concept.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browser_wars for details there, among 
other available reading.

Beyond the regulatory enforcement around Microsoft and Internet 
Explorer decades ago, we're presently in the midst of another 
legally-mandated shift with the GDPR and other privacy-related 
regulations.

> But what about Unix and the many flavors of Linux?  I'm not talking 
> about what might be provided as part of a distribution.  I'm talking 
> about vendor developed.

Microsoft has their own browser with Edge, and that's moving to an 
open-source engine based on the open-source Google Chrome engine.

Apple also has their own on iOS and macOS with Safari, and the Apple 
WebKit engine is open source.

Google has their own software, for their own client devices running 
Android/AOSP and Chromium OS, and clients for various other client 
platforms.

Beyond those, there are the Mozilla browsers and some other options, 
though those probably don't meet whatever your definition of "vendor 
developed" might be.

VSI will not create their own bespoke browser engine.  At best, 
there'll be a port of an existing browser and though I don't expect 
that, and—pragmatically—much of anything past maybe HTTPS client and 
server frameworks and related tooling is probably well out of scope for 
the folks at VSI.

> The real problem here is that Phillip wants whatever he wants, but, one 
> should keep a level playing field.

There are folks still using the Commodore 64, the Apple II and 
Microsoft MS-DOS, too.  And a few scattered PDP-11 boxes, as are 
occasionally referenced around here.  Phillip and folks like Phillip 
are not a market.  Not enough to matter.

> If some of the utilities available with other operating systems 
> actually come from third parties, then why should VMS be held to a 
> higher standard?  Good case in point, a "proper keyboard".  What Linux 
> distribution includes a keyboard?

What distributions include multiple and commonly-used apps which each 
expect only a bespoke keyboard, and particularly a keyboard that's no 
longer available for purchase?

> Now, if the problem is that if some browser, for example Firefox, 
> doesn't run on VMS, then complain to the Firefox people.  Good luck 
> with that.

There've been Firefox ports to OpenVMS.  Not a big draw, by all 
appearances.  Getting that whole Firefox or Chrome browser porting 
process easier would be a big step toward better app portability to 
OpenVMS in general, but that's not at the top of the priorities at VSI. 
 Nor are desktops, nor GUIs, nor desktop-related apps, nor mobile.    
OpenVMS is effectively an embedded server product, and centrally 
targeting the servers of the existing OpenVMS installed base.  And VSI 
has a whole lot of work ahead with just that effort.



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