[Info-vax] VMS First-Boot on x86 Contest

[Kerry Main]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Info-vax [mailto:info-vax-bounces at rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of
> Stephen Hoffman via Info-vax
> Sent: February 15, 2018 5:02 PM
> To: info-vax at rbnsn.com
> Cc: Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh at hoffmanlabs.invalid>
> Subject: Re: [Info-vax] VMS First-Boot on x86 Contest
> 
> On 2018-02-15 21:26:39 +0000, Bob Gezelter said:
> 
> > On Thursday, February 15, 2018 at 6:33:03 AM UTC-5, Phillip Helbig
> > (undress to reply) wrote:
> >> In article <14f431aa-8ecc-42e8-805d-
> 238b89a11852 at googlegroups.com>, Neil
> >> Rieck <n.rieck at sympatico.ca> writes:
> >>
> >>> p.s. a full copy of CentOS-7.x can be burned to a single DVD.
> >>
> >> VMS with all layered products as well?  CD?  No.  DVD?  Blu-Ray?
> >>
> >> Whatever.  Some of the complexity of a VMS installation involves
> >> choosing what to install, whether to de-compress stuff, and so on.
> >> About 20 years ago, I bought a 4-GB disk for f. 500 or whatever.  These
> >>  days, a disk 100 times as large can be had for about a tenth of the
> >> price---a factor of 1000.  (And 50 GB costs 99 cents a month in the
> >> iCloud.)  Hopefully VSI will change things so that a new VMS
> >> installation installs EVERYTHING.  Disks are cheap.  Really cheap.  If
> >> necessary, some functionality could be restricted via licensing.
> >
> > Phillip,
> >
> > With all due respect, I disagree.
> >
> > It would be nice to have a complete DVD distribution of all the kits
> > that could be loaded onto available mass storage.
> >
> > However, it should not load to the system disk. That just increases the
> > volume of &*^%%% which must be backed up and restored (setting
> that
> > directory tree NOBACKUP is not an option, it leads to too many
> > operational errors).
> >
> > Installation by default is also a definite non-starter. I do not want
> > any products installed on a system that I do not intend to be installed
> > on that system. Configuration control is a major audit issue.
> >
> > Having kits online so that intervention is not needed for an install is
> > a different matter.
> 
> The whole OpenVMS installation and configuration scheme is baroque,
> so
> I guess it makes sense to somebody.   it's a complete pile of dreck, so
> I guess it's "great!" or "secure!" or "atomic awesome sauce!" or some
> such.   It's a particularly hideous approach to test all the
> permutations, so it must be "wonderful!"   There's certainly no reason
> to just install a server platform that has server features, even if all
> of those are shut down by default, because that would make things far
> more straightforward.   And as for auditing, that's something which
> OpenVMS had as an add-on decades ago but that ended up vaporized in
> the
> mists of time and so there's no way to tell what's actually part of the
> installation and what's been added, because OpenVMS needs to be
> "hairier" because it's the platform for "real developers" or some such.
> 
> But seriously, dragging the whole platform back to something as utterly
> antique as optical disks?  Or continuing with and adding to what is
> already massive complexity and to the zillions of is-this-installed and
> we-need-that-go-set-some-parameter and
> edit-those-configuration-files-to-start-these-dozen-products-and-
> which-are-part-of-other-server-platform-base-distros-and-remember-
> to-start-them-in-that-specific-order
> is even a remotely sane thing to do?    Load it all, configure it all,
> set up a sane way that the services are started, and provide a way to
> verify what's installed is as expected, except for {list of files}.

[snip..]

I agree. (shock 😊) 

In todays wold with multi-TB disks, the age old concern about saving disk space on the system disk is rapidly going away.

In a few years, the smallest disks will be 500GB+ to TB scale capacities.

Seagate announces 60TB SSD disk: November, 2016
< https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/08/seagate-unveils-60tb-ssd-the-worlds-largest-hard-drive/>

Why not configure LD type containers with preloaded profiles with all available options loaded for that profile?
- Production profile
- Development profile (all LP's, primary open source prod's)
- other?

The key would be to ensure:
- only those components required would be actually enabled in the start-up file.
- for those that do not want certain things even on their drives, create an "un-install" process to remove those things not wanted. "Opt-out" vs. "Opt-In"
- LD profile drives should be available via secure means (e.g. VPN) and accounts over the internet (size concerns? Heck, every home downloads entire movies today at the blink of an eye)

The different LD environment profiles could be different p/n's subject to regular version controlled patches and updates

Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com