[Info-vax] Ada on VMS, was: Re: Making the CRTL version dependency information useful

[gérard Calliet]

Le 17/01/2018 à 14:35, Simon Clubley a écrit :
> On 2018-01-17, gérard Calliet <gerard.calliet at pia-sofer.fr> wrote:
>>
>> The new initiative is to make available for free a built of the GNAT Ada
>> compiler -as is- .
>>
>> The built has been made because of a port project to itanium which was
>> beginning a month after Adacore gave up any support for VMS.
>>
> 
> Well at least we now know that Ada on VMS is dead which was news to me. :-(
No, no, there is our initiative (buy an Itanium, buy a VSI Licence, and 
download here: www.vmsadaall.org :) )

> 
>> The only validation we could make was using it for the port. The port is
>> successfull, ans it seems it works. The application is used to control
>> the automatic line 14 of uderground in Paris.
>>
> 
> Are you planning to import new functionality from the current GNAT code
> base or will your compiler be frozen at its current level of functionality ?
As said a friend of mine: "with software everything depends on money". 
We are planning more than helping Ada survive on VMS, we want to alow 
for evolutions. But everything depends on number of subscriptions for 
support.

> 
>> The business plan is very simple: anyone can use the built for free, and
>> we can propose support, determining specific perimeters with the
>> customer. The more we'll get support  contracts, the more we can make
>> evolutions on the built.
>>
>> We hoped we could get some help from VSI, but they think we are too
>> little (too "new", perhaps :) )to speak with them.
>>
> 
> Did VSI tell you that or did they just not bother replying to your
> emails ? If it's the latter, don't read too much into it as that has
> apparently happened quite a bit in the past (based on comments here).
No, there are been a very long exchange with VSI, 2 presentations at 
bootcamps, personal conversations. VSI wants a complete distribution, a 
strong company for support, nothing like best efforts in an Open Source 
alliance of consultants.
And perhaps they have a dream about Adacore... which could have became 
realty if VSI had help initiatives on VMs Ada, helping to find renewal 
of business interest for VMS Ada. I should have pretended I was IBM or 
Oracle.

> 
>>>
>> Right. And I confirm it's no way with Adacore. Good people, got help
>> when we were rebuilding, but they do confirm the VMS story is finally
>> closed for them.
>>
> 
> That in itself is useful information. Thanks.
> 
>> I'm not sure. GNAT Ada is gcc and VSI VMS will be llvm.
>> The port we have done begins cross-compiling a gcc, it'll be a total
>> different thing using llvm.
> 
> Yes, it will probably be closer to the situation I found myself in with
> my failed efforts trying to build the GNAT cross compiler on Linux (you
> had the advantage of being able to start with a GNAT Pro compiler which
> was not an option available to me.)
In another world (with more investment on our Ada initiative) with time 
and resources, perhaps something could be made re-playing our work for 
Alpha.

> 
>> Adacore is studying now a transfer to llvm, but it is not for now, and
>> not for VMS.
>> [[we are on gcc 4.7, because newer version use c++ and last year no way
>> using c++ for a VMS port]]
>>
> 
> That C++ requirement is a major problem for VMS. One advantage of
> building cross compilers on Linux is that you can just use the
> modern C++ compilers on Linux as part of the cross compiler build.
> 
> LLVM is even worse because they keep changing the LLVM source code to
> use the latest C++ features.
> 
> I wish someone would make a nice portable lightweight compiler generator
> toolchain with a good range of backend targets and wasn't full of bloat.
Be patient. We'll get it :) .

> 
> Simon.
>