[Info-vax] Programming languages on VMS

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 01/24/2018 05:39 PM, Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> Den 2018-01-24 kl. 22:24, skrev Bill Gunshannon:
>> On 01/24/2018 04:01 PM, DaveFroble wrote:
>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>> On 01/24/2018 11:47 AM, DaveFroble wrote:
>>>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>>>> On 01/24/2018 10:36 AM, DaveFroble wrote:
>>>>>>> John Reagan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 8:49:22 AM UTC-5, Paul Sture 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2018-01-24, Arne Vajhøj <arne at vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2018 3:17 PM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In article <p45v88$1u3q$1 at gioia.aioe.org>, 
>>>>>>>>>>> =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?=
>>>>>>>>>>> <arne at vajhoej.dk> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Languages needed for old stuff:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fortran - HP/VSI, will be ported
>>>>>>>>>>>> Languages needed for new stuff:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hey!  One can write new code in Fortran!
>>>>>>>>>> You can.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But if you look at 1000 new applications how many of them will
>>>>>>>>>> actually be in Fortran?
>>>>>>>>> If you look at the scientific and High Performance world, Fortran
>>>>>>>>> is still in use.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is of course lots of existing Fortran 77 code, but 
>>>>>>>>> Fortran 77
>>>>>>>>> apparently still has a distinct performance advantage over later
>>>>>>>>> versions, so it is used for new programs as well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My guess: most likely none, maybe one or two.
>>>>>>>>> Probably more if you confine your search to the sector which uses
>>>>>>>>> Fortran already.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>> In 1911, Hollerith's firm was merged with several other 
>>>>>>>>> producers of
>>>>>>>>> specialized business equipment to produce CTR, the 
>>>>>>>>> Computing-Tabulating
>>>>>>>>> -Recording Company. The "Computing" part referred to weighing 
>>>>>>>>> scales -
>>>>>>>>> an interesting example of how language evolves over time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is a new Fortran frontend for LLVM named 'flang'.
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/flang-compiler/flang
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John, you know a bit about languages.  Let me ask a question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll preface the question by admitting that I view much of the 
>>>>>>> "new languages" as some people who just want to "re-invent the 
>>>>>>> wheel".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do the "new languages" actually present more and better 
>>>>>>> capabilities?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some do, for particular things.  Try writing a mobile app in Fortran.
>>>>>> But for much of the real work that drives business (like processing
>>>>>> credit card transactions or computing actuary tables languages like
>>>>>> COBOL and Fortran are still really the best choice.  The only thing
>>>>>> driving the move away from them is academia's decision to drive 
>>>>>> the bus
>>>>>> off a cliff rather than preparing students for entry into the IT 
>>>>>> world
>>>>>> (their actual job!!) by not only not teaching the requisite languages
>>>>>> but trying to sway students into believing the languages are dead and
>>>>>> totally unused.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> While not very good at performance, compiler wasn't written for 
>>>>> performance, Basic can do most of that stuff very well, and much more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Much the same comparison can be made with your "bus off a cliff" 
>>>>> comment, when looking at "the professionals" here and their 
>>>>> attitude toward Basic, right?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Given what it was designed for BASIC was never taken seriously.  Even
>>>> after ANSIfication it was still not overly practical as most versions
>>>> were interpreted and not compiled. What data type of none-integer does
>>>> BASIC support that can do calculations with decimals without the
>>>> cumulative error common to floating point?
>>>>
>>>> bill
>>>>
>>>
>>> When talking about DEC Basic, it's not anything like prior 
>>> implementations.
>>>
>>>
>>> DATA_TYPES
>>>
>>>    DECIMAL
>>>
>>>       The DECIMAL(d,s) data type keyword specifies  packed  decimal 
>>> data.   A
>>>       packed  decimal  value  has  a  specified  number  of  digits  
>>> (d) and a
>>>       specified decimal point position (s).
>>>
>>> Is that Ok ?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Already been addressed.  DEC BASIC != BASIC.
>>
>> bill
>>
> 
> DECIMAL is part of ANSI X3.113-1987 "Programming Languages Full BASIC".
> 

Well, apparently there is no copy of the standard viewable on the web.
Must be another "standard" that cost money just to read.  And then
they wonder why people fail to implement the standard.  :-)

But, I just looked at two BASIC implementations claiming to be
super-sets of the ANSI standard and neither of them had it.  Are
you sure it is the same as DECIMAL in VMS BASIC or just a reserved
word?

bill