[Info-vax] Programming languages on VMS

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 01/24/2018 10:31 PM, DaveFroble wrote:
> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> On 01/24/2018 04:01 PM, DaveFroble wrote:
>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>> On 01/24/2018 11:47 AM, DaveFroble wrote:
>>>>> Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>>>> On 01/24/2018 10:36 AM, DaveFroble wrote:
>>>>>>> John Reagan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 8:49:22 AM UTC-5, Paul Sture 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2018-01-24, Arne Vajhøj <arne at vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/23/2018 3:17 PM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In article <p45v88$1u3q$1 at gioia.aioe.org>, 
>>>>>>>>>>> =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=c3=b8j?=
>>>>>>>>>>> <arne at vajhoej.dk> writes:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Languages needed for old stuff:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fortran - HP/VSI, will be ported
>>>>>>>>>>>> Languages needed for new stuff:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hey!  One can write new code in Fortran!
>>>>>>>>>> You can.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But if you look at 1000 new applications how many of them will
>>>>>>>>>> actually be in Fortran?
>>>>>>>>> If you look at the scientific and High Performance world, Fortran
>>>>>>>>> is still in use.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is of course lots of existing Fortran 77 code, but 
>>>>>>>>> Fortran 77
>>>>>>>>> apparently still has a distinct performance advantage over later
>>>>>>>>> versions, so it is used for new programs as well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My guess: most likely none, maybe one or two.
>>>>>>>>> Probably more if you confine your search to the sector which uses
>>>>>>>>> Fortran already.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>>>>> In 1911, Hollerith's firm was merged with several other 
>>>>>>>>> producers of
>>>>>>>>> specialized business equipment to produce CTR, the 
>>>>>>>>> Computing-Tabulating
>>>>>>>>> -Recording Company. The "Computing" part referred to weighing 
>>>>>>>>> scales -
>>>>>>>>> an interesting example of how language evolves over time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is a new Fortran frontend for LLVM named 'flang'.
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/flang-compiler/flang
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John, you know a bit about languages.  Let me ask a question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'll preface the question by admitting that I view much of the 
>>>>>>> "new languages" as some people who just want to "re-invent the 
>>>>>>> wheel".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do the "new languages" actually present more and better 
>>>>>>> capabilities?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some do, for particular things.  Try writing a mobile app in Fortran.
>>>>>> But for much of the real work that drives business (like processing
>>>>>> credit card transactions or computing actuary tables languages like
>>>>>> COBOL and Fortran are still really the best choice.  The only thing
>>>>>> driving the move away from them is academia's decision to drive 
>>>>>> the bus
>>>>>> off a cliff rather than preparing students for entry into the IT 
>>>>>> world
>>>>>> (their actual job!!) by not only not teaching the requisite languages
>>>>>> but trying to sway students into believing the languages are dead and
>>>>>> totally unused.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> While not very good at performance, compiler wasn't written for 
>>>>> performance, Basic can do most of that stuff very well, and much more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Much the same comparison can be made with your "bus off a cliff" 
>>>>> comment, when looking at "the professionals" here and their 
>>>>> attitude toward Basic, right?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Given what it was designed for BASIC was never taken seriously.  Even
>>>> after ANSIfication it was still not overly practical as most versions
>>>> were interpreted and not compiled. What data type of none-integer does
>>>> BASIC support that can do calculations with decimals without the
>>>> cumulative error common to floating point?
>>>>
>>>> bill
>>>>
>>>
>>> When talking about DEC Basic, it's not anything like prior 
>>> implementations.
>>>
>>>
>>> DATA_TYPES
>>>
>>>    DECIMAL
>>>
>>>       The DECIMAL(d,s) data type keyword specifies  packed  decimal 
>>> data.   A
>>>       packed  decimal  value  has  a  specified  number  of  digits 
>>> (d) and a
>>>       specified decimal point position (s).
>>>
>>> Is that Ok ?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Already been addressed.  DEC BASIC != BASIC.
>>
>> bill
>>
>>
> 
> Don't you mean DEC BASIC <> BASIC ??
> 
> And yes, it might almost be considered a separate language, sharing the 
> name.
> 

Difference in the languages we work with.

<> == !=

:-)

bill