[Info-vax] The future of Ada on VMS

[gérard Calliet]

Le 24/05/2018 à 14:49, Ian Miller a écrit :
> On Thursday, May 24, 2018 at 10:19:34 AM UTC+1, gérard Calliet wrote:
>> Le 22/05/2018 à 00:45, Simon Clubley a écrit :
>>> On 2018-05-21, clair.grant at vmssoftware.com <clairgrant71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We are rewriting the Ada in the operating system to C/C++ so VMS itself
>>>> will not need an Ada compiler on x86. As to what x86 customers will do,
>>>> that is a definite TBD at this point. We have no, even remote, plans to
>>>> create it ourselves.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the clear answer Clair. At least we now know what the
>>> current situation is.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Simon.
>>>
>> Even more clear: we have cross-compiled a Gnat Ada (upon gcc 4.3.7),
>> which is up and running for our customer in France (line 14 of
>> underground) ; you can get it here: www.vmsadaall.org .
>>
>> It's a best effort initiative, very little means. But it worked, and if
>> other customer use it we can go on and do more.
>>
>> More:
>> - extending (our) specific Ada gcc to other gcc supported langages,
>> - doing the same cross-compilation for Alpha, to help and secure Alpha
>> Ada users,
>> - thinking about llvm future for Ada.
>>
>> Doing now (and because of that I'll have no time to rethorics, except
>> serious things posted at www.vmsadaall.org):
>> - reuse dwarf information produced by gcc to integrate Ada debug into
>> the VMS debugger.
>>
>> For now VSI declined any project of collaboration. Too little, too
>> risky. In french we say "pas de bras, pas de chocolat".
>>
>> Gérard Calliet
>>
>> ---
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> 
> Can you say why VSI would not collaborate with you on a ADA compiler?
> 
> Your effort so far in building the Open source GNAT ADA compiler on OpenVMS appears to me to be the option that has made the most progress so it seems strange that VSI won't pursue this.
> 
It is strange for me also, but I could not event have a meeting at the 
boot camp (where I was sponsor in the name of VMS ADA ALLIANCE).
The prerequisite VSI told me are here:
 >>>
What is missing are the following.

     A complete development environment that includes not only the 
compiler but OpenVMS style debugging, predefined libraries for OpenVMS 
style language support (sorting, math, string manipulation, POSIX, XML 
processing, Web integration, multi-language support, etc.).

     Installation testing tools like an IVP (Installation Verification 
Procedure) that is customer viewable.


     Certification/validation tools that are VSI viewable only for 
certifying the compiler adheres to Ada standards.

     Installation kit.  An Ada “kit” will have to be developed. Today 
the Ada compiler is distributed as executable files the customer has to 
install manually.  An installation procedure needs to be developed to 
install the product in the correct directories for ease of use and for 
product verification purposes.

     Documentation like the Installation Guide, Run-Time Library Users 
Guide, Language Reference Manual, OpenVMS Extensions, Debugger Reference 
Manual, Release Notes and other related documents.  These manuals will 
have to be updated over time to reflect newer language standards and 
enhancements to OpenVMS that may affect the Ada environment.


     Support, beyond just bug fixes, is a big issue as the compiler will 
have to be kept up to date with the latest standards, new test routines 
will have to be developed to test these new language standards and 
product bugs will have to be fixed.  This will require a development, 
test and support staff for this to be viable.

     IP license rights.  Who owns the IP rights to not only the compiler 
but other tools and OpenVMS modifications made to the Ada compiler? 
These issues have not been worked out between you and David Sauvage. 
This in itself is a big risk for VSI.

 >>> end of quote

It is not something I can do with my means. If you know an investor, 
perhaps, I could reopen the discution with VSI :)