[Info-vax] Most popular application programming languages on VMS ?

[gérard Calliet]

Le 09/01/2019 à 19:52, Bill Gunshannon a écrit :
> On 1/9/19 1:28 PM, gérard Calliet wrote:
>> Le 08/01/2019 à 15:19, Bill Gunshannon a écrit :
>>> On 1/8/19 8:51 AM, abrsvc wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 8, 2019 at 8:19:14 AM UTC-5, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>>>> All this talk about programming languages has made me wonder what
>>>>> the most popular application programming languages are on VMS, both
>>>>> today and in the past.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since the language options are going to vary with application type
>>>>> (you are not going to see a lot of scientific programming in COBOL
>>>>> for example :-)), this is across the VMS base as a whole and not
>>>>> across one specific section of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know the answer ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Simon.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Simon Clubley, clubley at remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
>>>>> Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world
>>>>
>>>> I can only talk about the ones for the sites that I support...
>>>>
>>>> The most common that I see are:
>>>>
>>>> FORTRAN
>>>> COBOL
>>>> C
>>>> BASIC
>>>>
>>>> Others seen but not particularly actively used in new development:
>>>>
>>>> DIBOL
>>>> MACRO-32
>>>> PASCAL
>>>>
>>>
>>> Don't forget Ada.  The VAX running VMS had one of the
>>> first validated compilers and saw use pretty much from
>>> the very first VAX to hit the streets.  I saw it in the
>>> very early 80's.
>>>
>>> bill
>>>
>> +1
>>
>> But I dont't know how many of them went to DEC Ada Alpha. THe few who 
>> used GNAT Ada Itanium are no more here (said by Adacore, difficult to 
>> evaluate because they have a political decision of stopping their 
>> support for VMS).
>>
>> It seems that thinking about a future for Ada on VMS involves being 
>> able of addressing the complete set of needs: support and port (to 
>> x86)  of all the VAX and Alpha Ada compiler (DEC Ada first, but there 
>> are another Ada compiler for VAX/VMS), support and port (to x86) of 
>> GNAT Ada Itanium, and creating an Ada compiler for VMS x86.
>>
>> Everything is possible, and it seems it would be better to have a 
>> global offer on this domain - everything is possible *if* it can make 
>> sense in term of business, for sure.
>>
>> To have an Ada compiler on VMS x86 it can be made by 2 different means:
>> - gcc cross compiled from Linux - as we have made for our built for 
>> VMS Itanium, => I'm not sure it is even possible, with issues of 
>> compatibility in pushing a strange gcc idiomatic x86 image in a llvm 
>> world,
>> - Adacore will have this year a prototype of Ada compiler using LLVM 
>> as a back end ; we can plug this front end to the VMS LLVM back end => 
>> it is the most rational idea, but we'll have to wait from Adacore, and 
>> Adacore says llvm will never be their principal stream of development.
>>
> 
> Aren't Ada compilers still required to be validated? Isn't that
> likely to be a work intensive and expensive proposition?  Is
> there enough of a customer base to justify the time and expense?
Yes they have to. With gcc package there is a test and probing 
environment, and the GNAT Ada community, inforced by Adacore, has a lot 
of tools which make easier the validation.
Also, everything I think of, will be strictly based on the Adacore 
compilers, so a lot of things are already validated.

But the major investment is about playing with the VMS x86 port, from 
out (gcc) or in (adacore llvm prototype). I know now 3 actors:
- me, but a little too little,
- VSI, but they have a lot of others topics, and I'm not sure there is 
enought business in it to decide to go,
- Adacore, but they don't care about a business they have abandoned.

I thought about collaboration, but it seems collaborated business is 
very far from the VMS culture.

Gérard Calliet
> 
> bill
> 
>