[Info-vax] DZQ11 on VAX/4000 Model 300

Tue Jan 15 09:30:58 EST 2019

Den 2019-01-15 kl. 14:49, skrev johnwallace4 at yahoo.co.uk:
> On Tuesday, 15 January 2019 00:28:55 UTC, David Wade  wrote:
>> On 14/01/2019 23:25, johnwallace4 at yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>> On Monday, 14 January 2019 21:19:24 UTC, David Wade  wrote:
>>>> On 14/01/2019 17:42, Stephen Hoffman wrote:
>>>>> On 2019-01-14 17:04:41 +0000, David Wade said:
>>>>>
>>>>>>     I have just installed a DZQ11 in my VAX/4000 and once I figured out
>>>>>> I had by "A" and "B" pins mixed up on the BERG connector  (I had to
>>>>>> fabricate a lead as it came without any) on a brief test it seems to
>>>>>> be working just fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However when I removed it the VAX seemed to hang on boot. I popped it
>>>>>> back in and it seems to be working fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>> So should I do anything to VMS to manage its configuration?
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope.  OpenVMS is working exactly as expected.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why does it hang when the card is removed? Thats not expected to me...
>>>> .. if the CSRs worked before, surely they work the same afterwards....
>>>>
>>>>>> In case it matters the machine is running VMS 7.3. The other cards in
>>>>>> the machine are, from the CPU and memory moving left, a TK70
>>>>>> controller card, a KZQSA SCSI controller with CD ROM and the DZQ11.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please excuse me asking on here but google seems to be intent on
>>>>>> referring me to hpe sites which all redirect to the documentation Index.
>>>>>
>>>>> HPE is exiting the OpenVMS business.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Then why does it still have the documentation catalogue ...
>>>>
>>>>> Use Google Groups search of the comp.os.vms newsgroup archives, search
>>>>> for the word "serpentine" (though that's less of an issue with BA213 and
>>>>> BA215 and BA4xx series Q-bus boxes), and learn how the Q-bus and the
>>>>> Q-bus boards are configured.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The BA440 backplane isn't a serpentine plane is it?
>>>>
>>>>> Basically, the Q-bus CSRs and vectors can vary by what's installed in
>>>>> the Q-bus in the box, and you'll need to adjust the CSR and (if present)
>>>>> vector settings on one or more other Q-bus modules in the bus, and/or
>>>>> insert a bus grant card or otherwise fill the vacated slot.
>>>>>
>>>>> Start by reading chapters 3 and 4 here:
>>>>> https://archive.org/stream/bitsavers_decvax630AITechnicalManualBA23EnclosureOct85_15635013/AZ-GLFAB-MN_VAXstation_II_Technical_Manual_BA23_Enclosure_Oct85#mode/2up
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is a Serpentine backplane isn't it? Frome reading the VAX/4000
>>>> manual the BA440 isn't a serpentine backplane. The CD slots are seem to
>>>> be generally only used for memory and there is no
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, and ********NEVER********** believe the interrupt vector setting
>>>>> shown by OpenVMS.   Be skeptical about the CSR setting, too.
>>>>> OpenVMS VAX will tell you what it thinks or expects the vector to be,
>>>>> and that may not match reality.
>>>>> OpenVMS VAX has no direct means of reading the interrupt vector setting,
>>>>> and the indirect means is dicy at best and is not implemented by OpenVMS
>>>>> displays.
>>>>> Again, ********NEVER, EVER, EVER, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, DO NOT EVEN
>>>>> THINK OF IT, NOT-AT-ALL, NOPE, DO NOT MAKE THIS MISTAKE******** trust
>>>>> what OpenVMS VAX shows for CSR and particularly vector settings.
>>>>> Remove the boards, and decode the CSR and (if present) the interrupt
>>>>> vector setting.
>>>>>
>>>>> And FWIW, Google seemingly doesn't include the Google Groups content in
>>>>> most Google searches.  Only the Google Groups search seemingly includes
>>>>> that data from here in the newsgroup, and that Google Groups search
>>>>> doesn't always work reliably.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> It sometimes pops up....
>>>>
>>>> Dave..
>>>
>>> Without seeing some more info on what happens in the (failed)
>>> boot process it's hard to be helpful. Are you using a serial
>>> console whose output can be captured and posted somewhere?
>>>
>>
>> Yes
>>
>>> Also there is no such thing as VAX/4000, there are various
>>> VAX 4000 family members of different shapes and sizes and
>>> capabilities.
>>>
>>
>> VAX 4000 model 300
>>
>>> To the best of my recollection very few (none?) of them were
>>> sold in a BA23-type box with the BA23-associated mixed Q/CD
>>> backplane. See e.g.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAX_4000
>>>
>>> Also look elsewhere on t'Interweb for references to BA440
>>> enclosure which was frequently used for VAX 4000, (or even
>>> look at the manufacturer label on your own enclosure) so
>>> readers can have a better idea of what's in the box, which
>>> should help provide better responses to your questions.
>>>
>>
>> Its a BA440
>>
>>> Is there any chance that the addition of the DZQ card in the
>>> "VAX/4000" has done something which persists after the card
>>> is removed? As you rightly point out, it's not unreasonable
>>> to expect the "orignal" behaviour to be restored when the
>>> DZQ is removed, if it's purely related to CSRs and vectors
>>> etc. However...
>>>
>>> Let's suppose (for example - not suggesting that this is
>>> what's happening here, insufficient data to rule it in or
>>> rule it out) the insertion of the DZQ makes something visible
>>> that was previously invisible.
>>>
>>> Also suppose that newly visible something is VMScluster-related
>>> and contributed to votes (lots of VAX 4000 systems had DSSI
>>> connected storage. DSSI disks could and did sometimes
>>> contribute to cluster votes, and in the right circumstances
>>> that change could lead to an increase in E
>>>
>>> Suppose also that removing the DZQ makes that something go
>>> away, and that it reappears when the DZQ is put back in,
>>> either because of changed CSR/vectors or changed grant
>>> continuity or whatever.
>>>
>>> If it's having an effect on cluster formation, votes, etc,
>>> it ought to be reasonably obvious from a boot-time console
>>> log, if it was happening.
>>>
>>
>> Its not clustered
>>
>>> Or this could be irrelevant to your setup. Right now it's hard
>>> to say, but a little more detail on what you've actually got
>>> might well be useful.
>>>
>>> Best of luck. Have a lot of fun.
>>>
>>
>> The detail seems to have got lost in the trimming.....
>>
>> So a VAX 4000 model 300 as described here:-
>>
>> http://manx-docs.org/collections/mds-199909/cd1/vax/337abti2.pdf
>>
>> The technical manual for the BA440 as described in this manual...
>>
>> http://manx-docs.org/collections/mds-199909/cd2/cabinets/348abmg2.pdf
>>
>> There are usually two additional cards in the Q-BUS, a TK70 tape
>> controller card, which does not have a tape drive connected, and which
>> sits next to the CPU. A KZQSA SCSI controller, which gain usually has no
>> drives connected, but which is used to connect a CD-ROM, which sits in
>> the next slot.
>>
>> I have a selection of Pen Plotters that I wanted to experiment with so I
>> wanted some extra Serial Ports. So I bought a DQZ11. It was cheap enough
>> so if it didn't work it was not a big deal.
>>
>> I can say the system works fine.  I have only run limited tests, but it
>> boots, TCPIP works and I can log on using the DZQ11. If I then remove
>> the DQZ11 the system won't boot normally, which I found puzzling, and
>> wondered why and what to do about it.
>>
>> I will try and reproduce with a PC console so I can capture the startup
>> log...
>>
>> Dave
> 
> OK, thanks for that.
> 
> Your console logging doesn't necessarily *require* a PC, but
> if it's readily available and familiar, fair enough. Other
> options might include connecting to the VAX 4000M300 console
> via a terminal server port and "reverse LAT" or similar (if
> that means anything to you).
> 
> Whichever approach you pick for console port connectivity,
> something you might want to look at sooner rather than later
> might be the console-mode
> "SHOW QBUS" command,
> It's described in various manuals including the VAX 4000
> Model 300 Technical Info Guide, EK-337AB-TI (you have access
> to this one, right?).
> 
> Try it both with and without the DZQ card present, and see if any
> differences are visible.
> 
> As others have noted, and as can be seen from the DZQ docs,
> the DZQ11 isn't designed to be a high performance serial card.

There are DHQ11 cards available from eBay. Instead of the single
character interrupt in the DZQ11, the DHQ11 has FIFO's buffers
for received data and a DMA option for sending data. Much less
system overhead in the terminal driver.