[Info-vax] VXT, anyone ?

Sat Mar 2 10:47:17 EST 2019

On 2019-03-02 09:49:59 +0000, Marc Van Dyck said:

> After serious thinking Stephen Hoffman wrote :
>> 
>> As for X?  Linux has X built in.   You'll need to disable part or all 
>> of the X security on the X Window Server on Linux, and the older 
>> DECwindows client security support had some issues here.  Previous 
>> discussions of xming and other X Window servers around here in 
>> comp.os.vms will have discussions of disabling X security features, too.
> 
> That part is already working. Set the display to the linux box and then 
> run sys$system:decw$session. Once the menus ribbon is displayed on the 
> linux box, I can then start decterms on every system I work with.

Ah, so it was already set up.  The OpenVMS XDM-related and other bits 
were also configured.

>> There have been X keyboard maps for DECwindows posted previously.  You 
>> might have to experiment to get those maps to work with that Belgian 
>> French keyboard, though.
> 
> This is where I'm looking for more detailed help, because even if I can 
> get a file containing the keyboard map, I have no idea how to load it 
> on the system.

So... Where did you look for information?  What did you search for?

>> Search for previous discussions of the DECwindow font server here in 
>> comp.os.vms, if you really want to use DECwindows fonts.

> This is a part of DECwindows I never experimented with. Do I need to 
> have a font installed on the Linux box, or can the font be obtained 
> from one of the client OpenVMS systems that I work with ?

>From a previous discussion here in comp.os.vms: "Use the font server?   
For configuration details, see the available  DECwindows font daemon 
documentation, and materials related to the  DECW$XTERMINAL_FONT and 
DECW$INSTALL_XTERMINAL logical names.   The  font server is known more 
classically as classically xfs, and known as  DECW$FD on OpenVMS."

> 
>> Plug the OpenVMS LK keyboard into the USB port.
> 
> That I figured out myself :-) I have an LK USB keyboard, previously 
> used with a RX2600. I still have it, but it's too noisy for an office 
> environment.

OpenVMS doesn't fit into the typical server room all that well, either. 
 But that's due to issues and omissions around protocol support and 
around remote management support and related, not noise.

> But once connected, I can't get all the keys to work, which is, again, 
> a keybord map issue, I suppose. So back to my first question, howto...

Some keys not working is pretty much normal.  Mapping requires keys that work.

See below for a link to Wickens' home-made keyboard adapter, for an 
older DEC keyboard.

>> Most OpenVMS stuff can be run from the command line.  Yeah, the keypads 
>> can be missed.  I punted on the DEC editors for most work and moved 
>> (back) to vim a while back.  Dealing with EDT line mode or EVE line 
>> mode or LSEDIT line mode is not fun when that's what is available, but 
>> possible.
> 
> I have yet to find an editor more convenient than LSEDIT for the kind 
> of work I do. So indeed a proper keypad is, kind of, required.

Been using LSEDIT without a proper keyboard for a decade.  Very weak 
tool for an IDE by present standards, but still one the best options 
that's available on OpenVMS.  The important commands are available via 
the keyboard.

> Which is why I'm struggling with all that stuff.

The LK-style numeric keypad and LK-style editing keypad is dead.

For a number of usages and applications, the editing and numeric 
keypads are dead.

That's where hardware has gone.

OpenVMS hasn't yet realized it, and the tools have not been adapted nor 
have alternatives been made available.

There are those folks that will never stop using EDT of course.

Alas, OpenVMS is an increasing struggle to develop for, even when the 
tools and keypads and the keyboard mapping is all working.  It works as 
well as it ever did, sort of, but it's really fallen behind.

>> Absent requirements for displaying an X Window client app and for 
>> typical interactive use, an ssh connection works as well as a remote 
>> DECterm session.
> 
> This is how I'm working now, putty, puttycm, and putty agent.

Other than that you don't need PuTTY or another emulator as the command 
line itself already provides the emulation, sure.

> Works reasonably fine, but still prefer a decterm.

Search the DECwindows documentation for discussions of CREATE 
/TERMINAL, and search comp.os.vms for previous discussions of CREATE 
/TERMINAL.  There's an API for that too, which can be handy for 
launching terminals and debugger sessions and related under program 
control.

> 
>> For more information...  Search the newsgroup archives (via Google 
>> Groups) for xming-related discussions, and for xterm-related 
>> discussions, and for XDM-related discussions, and for decw$font-related 
>> discussions.  Lots of good info.

> Will do. Still interested in quick howto info, if anyone has.

some few of the related discussions around the 'net, including various 
discussions from comp.os.vms and other DDG searches...

http://wickensonline.co.uk/app/index.html#/linuxlk
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.vms/LTLWLiQT4rY/hYDE_MpOBwAJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.vms/yqH3WkDE4YY/LnJwZe18AAAJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.vms/cXsUvk9aJ70/MPwoSuaTtMcJ
https://invisible-island.net/xterm/
https://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html#how2_fkeys
https://www.jwz.org/xkeycaps/
https://www.parsec.com/resources/technical.php?i=2735&r=ZP452P&d=OpenVMS
https://superuser.com/questions/1296401/xmodmap-how-to-remap-keys-and-disable-the-original-ones 

http://hoffmanlabs.com/vmsfaq/vmsfaq_018.html#decw5
http://hoffmanlabs.com/vmsfaq/vmsfaq_018.html#keymapping
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.vms/IiM10m6DRa4/580yXGgDQl8J
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.vms/uDhHZ0qGz2o/BhI3KciWBqoJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.vms/OtfEim_xl_U/APPRHacIpPkJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.vms/diHuzNGRdIQ/Cve3duWlRWoJ

More generally, some of the docs and semi-related testing tools:
http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/docs/732FINAL/index.HTML#decwin
http://www-pi.physics.uiowa.edu/docs/732final/documentation/pdf/dw_using.PDF
http://h30266.www3.hpe.com/ODLIndex.asp
https://vt100.net
https://invisible-island.net/vttest/vttest.html

I usually ssh into the OpenVMS box, and use the main keyboard with the 
tools.  That works with EDT, LSEDIT, the Debugger, and most other 
stuff.  Also works with vim and other tools when retrofit onto OpenVMS. 
 X is rather heavy and slow, for what it provides for remote access, 
absent a requirement for testing or using a specific X client app.  And 
if I need to work with X, I'll use ssh -X or ssh -Y into OpenVMS and 
bring the session back along the ssh connection, unless I trust the 
network path.  No mapping, no XDM, no FD, but it works, and it's 
decently speedy.  Pushing source files from the IDE over onto OpeVMS to 
build works too, if the source code is reasonably portable.

-- 
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