[Info-vax] inertia or fundamentals about langages?

[Stephen Hoffman]

On 2019-05-22 17:34:53 +0000, gérard Calliet said:


> To discuss needs a little bit of honesty. You get your arguments about 
> the fact I spoke about a vms 5.5 case.

That V5.5-2H4 case is far from the only case, and I cite that as one of 
many examples.

More than a few of us don't realize comparatively how far back even the 
un-patched V8.4 releases are, even given the sedate pace of OpenVMS 
updates.   There's another thread going around ssh incompatibilities.

C saw a number of useful and common library calls added in the V7 and 
V8 range, as another example of the difficulties and work-arounds that 
will be incurred.

ANSI/ISO C syntax will not work with K&R-era compilers. Etc.

You want other examples?  I've got *lots*.

> I had to say my analysis around vms is not based on this specific case.

Nor are mine.

> For this discussion I think there are a difference of point of vue. My 
> opinion here is althought often we can say "the tree hides the forest", 
> I hear your analyzis as "a forest which hide the tree".

Of course there are differences.

> A lot of (important) details sometimes hampers consideration on 
> fondamentals. The revival of VMS is far from a  set of details.

The fundamentals being that VSI has to sell enough support contracts 
and enough licenses to stay in business?

> And a lot of contextual causes doesn't everytime prevent success of 
> cleverness. The VMS x86 port is one of these stories.

There's no shortage of clever code in OpenVMS, nor in most other platforms.

As for OpenVMS ports, I've seen three of those from the inside.  Two 
more—RSX-11M to VAX/VMS, and this current x86-64 port—from the outside. 
 Each had clever bits.  I found the Mach port to be the most clever.

> I remember how "poetic" was thought here my analysis on a potential 
> revival of VMS - and there was a lot of contextual good reasons to 
> think like that -. And it seems it has been my fundamentals (poetics) 
> which has been right.

Poetry?   Here's some poetry:

"Buddy, you're a sysadmin, make a big noise, ignoring CVEs, gonna patch 
those machines someday

You got mud on your face, you big disgrace, leaking your customer data 
all over the place

We will, we will, hack you"
    —@kelseyhightower

> Your analysis are very usefull and always full of precious information. 
> Try also synthesis.

Yes, the Synthesis kernel is quite interesting.  No, that's not what you meant.



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