[Info-vax] Thoughts on VSI Community License Program

[John H. Reinhardt]

On 8/12/2020 8:53 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 8/12/2020 7:32 PM, John H. Reinhardt wrote:
>> On 8/12/2020 6:01 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> I see a lot of posts about problems or potential problems.
>>>
>>> But I think we should look at the big picture.
>>>
>>> HPE killed the hobbyist program with very short notice.
>>>
>>> VSI announced and started the new Community License Program pretty
>>> quickly.
>>>
>>> Considering how many very important tasks VSI has at the moment,
>>> then I consider that pretty impressive.
>>>
>>> So VSI has proven their good will.
>>>
>>> Maybe the license mix is not optimal.
>>>
>>> But based on the past then I would expect VSI to listen to
>>> suggestions when they do an evaluation in 1 or 3 or 6 months.
>>>
>>> (excluding VAX licenses which seems to be a non-starter)
>>>
>>> Arne
>>
>>
>> I hope my post today doesn't sound like whining, but I suppose it can be
>> seen that way.  I fully expect the VSI Community License program to
>> evolve the way HP's Hobbyist program did over the years.  My purpose was
>> to document what was available.  I know VSI did this in somewhat of a
>> hurry, I think they expected up to another year before needing to roll
>> this out.  I'm hoping that the lack of compiler PAKs on the Integrity
>> side is just an "oh, crap, we forgot those" thing since the install
>> files are in the downloads.  Perhaps the OpenVMS-BOE includes them, I
>> have not worked with the VSI side before. I know HP's BOE did not.
>>
>> If nobody says they want Integrity licenses for Clustering and Disk
>> Shadowing, then VSI will never know that we want it.  I assume a good
>> percentage of "serious" hobbyist will want them.  After all, Clustering
>> and even HBVS are two of the main pillars of what VAX/VMS - VMS -
>> OpenVMS are all about.  Looking at the VSI SPD for OpenVMS it seems that
>> the HAOE gets you clustering, disk shadowing and RMS Journaling.  All of
>> these were available previously so hopefully whatever reason it was
>> behind not including it can be reversed.
>>
>> I also know that talking about it here isn't the best channel in getting
>> back to VSI.  True many VSI people frequent here but I imagine emails to
>> training at vmssofware.com would be very helpful as well.
>>
> 
> Just some thoughts.
> 
> If one feels that something is missing, definitely ask VSI.  They don't know unless you ask/tell them.
> 
> Regardless, my opinion is that VMS strengths should be shoved in front of as many faces as possible.
> 
> Itanics seem a dime a dozen anymore, regardless, it's not something I'd consider for a hobbyist / CL set-up.  But so what, it's perfectly Ok for others to want to do so.
> 

Itanium machines aren't that common, I'm talking about on EBay and Craigslist type places that most hobbyists are going to look. Prices have gone up in the past few years too. I got my ZX6000 4-5 years ago for around $300.  Now you can't find one for less than $800 and it's a slow one.  I have a RX2660 and I got it for around $500, now they are pushing $1000.  There was that batch of RZ2600's that a salvage dealer was selling for $200 each about 10 years ago. I got two back then and gave them away when I moved.  You can't find one now very often.  I imagine when the x86 machines start selling then some will come available but that's going to be a while.  I know Dave at Island has a bunch but he can't sell at hobbyist prices even if they are still 80% off what was HP list.  You may have a poor opinion of the Itaniums but they're faster than just about any Alpha and if a Hobbyist could get one at a decent price they would.

Alphas are getting hard to fine, too on the used market.  The 466MHz DS10's are selling int eh $700-$800 range and the 617MHz systems are higher.  They are still commercially viable so there a number listed perpetually at $1800 but nobody's buying except for business that need one as a replacement.  On Ebay they are rare.  A DS15 or DS25 are extremely rare to see.  The DS20's and other smaller, hobbyist friendly systems are rare, too.  Whenever the x86 OpenVMS is available for hobbyists I expect it to be a boon since running it under a Hypervisor like VirtualBox or ESXi will allow any reasonbly well equipped x86 box to host.

> I seem to recall a mention of "testing".  If that is testing for a commercial purpose, then a developer license would be appropriate, not a CL license.
> 

True. I thought that myself. The ISV program is probably better suited.  I thought VSI had mentioned it somewhere but I probably was reading more into Section 4 of the EULA than was VSI's intention.

"4. PARTICIPATION

In partial consideration of the license granted hereunder, you agree to provide reasonable participation in the online Software community forums, including without limitation such activities as answering questions and contributing articles and how-to videos to the Open VMS online Software community at https://forum.vmssoftware.com.
"

> I'm a bit confused with the compiler licenses.  I have Alpha licenses from DEC, and they are still on the Alpha with the VSI V8.4-2L1 release.  Perhaps the DEC product and license is still good for a non-VMS product on a VSI release.  Not sure how DEC Basic, C, and such is considered.
> 

Even if the DEC/HP Hobbyist licenses work for them it's still terminating on 1-JAN-2021 so it's of limited value.  I think it's just an oversight on VSI's part and will be fixed at some point.  It think I'm going to have to put the VSI versions on my ZX6000 since it's less of a loss to the cluster when it gets removed.  At least then I can see what actually is included and what isn't rather than guessing

-- 
John H. Reinhardt