[Info-vax] Which programming language would you like to see officially supported on VMS ?

[gérard Calliet]

Le 13/08/2020 à 17:02, Dave Froble a écrit :
> On 8/13/2020 8:55 AM, gérard Calliet wrote:
>> Le 20/02/2020 à 03:45, John Reagan a écrit :
>>> I'll need Cmake on OpenVMS to build LLVM on x86.
>> Will we get Cmake and up-to-date LLVM also on itanium ?
>> <
> 
> Gerald,
My first name is Gérard. (French first name, not the same as Gerald 
german cousins)
> 
>  From some of your posts it appears you're interested in seeing VSI 
> continue to develop for VAX, Alpha, and itanic.  If so, then you're 
> going to be disappointed.  All three of those are basically dead 
> products.  x86 is the beginning of the future.
x86 is a *future* beginning of the future. Now, until 2022, Alpha and 
Itanium are the way we live or survive.

And not because I am a true believer, I don't understand the concept "x 
is dead". It was the subject of my opened letter to Meg Witman. 
Survivors are whose who don't believe about announced deaths.

I didn't think about VAX *development*, read what I'm thinking about it. 
But as a true native american, I think respect of the ancestors is the 
right way to have a long life :) .

More seriously as you can see with long long time of Alpha, which 
involved the decision of getting a 9.2 for Alpha, I do think there will 
be a long long time where Alpha and Itanium will be neightbour of x86.

I'm puzzled with the naïve thinking that some miracle will make the 
choice of porting to x86 easier to choose than that of port to Alpha and 
port to Itanium. Everytime we had lost a part of the customer basis, 
even where it was not the idea of a little startup, compared to the 
sovereign choice od a world company. It will be a hard fight, and 
offering during this time confortable neighbouring will help a lot.

The customers will port to x86 *if* they trust on the whole strength of 
the VMS ecosystem, and in this, for a long time there will be the beasts 
you hate, the Itaniums, and the old heroes, the Alphas.

[[VAX will just be a grand ancestor, which a lot of true likers of the 
history of computing will continue to learn with it (see what a strength 
develops the simh community). Again I think the founded understanding 
depends on appreciation of the fundationals. But it is another topic.]]

> 
> Without being John, I can still pretty much guarantee you that you will 
> not see LLVM on VAX, Alpha, or itanic from VSI.

> 
> While there are multiple reasons, the main reason is that VSI is 
> leverging x86 work on LLVM for VMS usage.  As far as I know, there is no 
> LLVM already on itanic.  Thus, VSI would have to develop the entire 
> compiler tool chain, and, that just isn't going to happen.
x86 is now cross-compiled with LLVM on Itanium. It is already there. 
And, even it is hard to think about, it seems we still need Itanium. 
Sometimes the "dead" are helping the "living".
> 

To be more exact. My point is not about the nightmare for VSI ceo about 
the trades-off between x86 as-soon-as-possible and making VMS usable 
today. My point is about the only answer everyone gets now about 
everything: "the priority is x86". No. If there is only this answer it 
is a mirage. And the counter-mirage is about "the death of x".

Don't spoil it. John will say no, and we'll go thinking about other 
topics :)