[Info-vax] Thoughts on VSI Community License Program

[Joukj]

Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 8/14/20 3:23 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>> On 8/14/2020 11:38 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 8/14/2020 11:28 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>> On 8/14/2020 8:39 AM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> On 8/14/2020 4:44 AM, Phillip Helbig (undress to reply) wrote:
>>>>>> In article <c5677abe-805f-45f9-bd1e-d3af9125f321o at googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>> David Goodwin <dgsoftnz at gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Removing access to the platforms main selling point to try and 
>>>>>>> combat
>>>>>>> pirac=
>>>>>>> y seems like a pretty serious error. Piracy is the very last thing
>>>>>>> VSI shou=
>>>>>>> ld be concerned with. They would be lucky if piracy was a problem.
>>>>>>> Right no=
>>>>>>> w they're going to have a hard time even getting Linux users to
>>>>>>> seriously l=
>>>>>>> ook at OpenVMS at all, let alone consider pirating it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds like the "it's good to `share' music because it benefits the
>>>>>> musician".  The musician himself can decide if he wants to give stuff
>>>>>> away.  So can VSI.  The idea that people first pirate stuff to try it
>>>>>> out then become paying customers is bullshit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whether VMS piracy is a problem is a different question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, they seem to not realise that a company pirating OpenVMS is
>>>>>>> better for VSI than one that just gives up and runs Linux. A
>>>>>>> company that's
>>>>>>> pirating OpenVMS is at least creating demand for OpenVMS experts and
>>>>>>> software and is a potential VSI customer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Really?  Someone morally low enough to steal intellectual property 
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> have a vision and become a paying customer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is attitudes like this which seriously endanger hobbyist licenses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The pool of OpenVMS experts and available softw=
>>>>>>> are needs to be much much larger than it is for OpenVMS to be
>>>>>>> competitive w=
>>>>>>> ith linux.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> VMS will probably never compete with Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> And before anyone starts to go down the pirate path let me link to:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2319
>>>>>
>>>>> Usually doing "something" for VMS is good.
>>>>>
>>>>> But doing 1/3/5/6/10 years for VMS is not good.
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> It's once again proven, "human intelligence" is a myth .....
>>>>
>>>> So, though it's probably hopeless, I'll try once again to help
>>>> understanding.
>>>>
>>>> Some will claim that if say 10,000 commercial users of VMS are not
>>>> paying for VSI support (best revenue method for VSI) that it will
>>>> cause financial loss for VSI.  Consider the case that the "illegal"
>>>> users would stop using VMS before paying one dollar for such use.  So,
>>>> then, how much revenue is VSI losing?
>>>>
>>>> Under those conditions the only correct answer is ....
>>>>
>>>> wait for it ....
>>>>
>>>> NOT ONE DOLLAR!  NOT ONE RED CENT!
>>>>
>>>> One cannot lose anything one was never going to get.
>>>>
>>>> However, consider what those 10,000 users will be doing.
>>>>
>>>> There will be a substantial number of employees working with VMS.
>>>>
>>>> There will be the realization that VMS is a good solution for many
>>>> requirements.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps in some cases a law abiding person ends up in charge, and
>>>> decides to become "legal".
>>>>
>>>> The cheap bastards probably won't pay decent salaries, so there will
>>>> be a large number of VMS capable people looking for better jobs, and
>>>> available to VMS users who are a revenue source for VSI.
>>>>
>>>> Such a scenario would be one of the better things to happen for VSI.
>>>
>>> And?
>>>
>>> The law is still the law.
>>>
>>> Some people think piracy is OK if the pirate would not have paid anyway.
>>>
>>> The mafia thought is was OK to kill people that broke their code of
>>> conduct.
>>>
>>> And so on.
>>>
>>> But laws applies to everyone.
>>>
>>> Laws is not something you pick and chose among. I like those two laws
>>> so I follow them, but I don't like the third one so I will ignore that.
>>> Doesn't work that way.
>>>
>>> Arne
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Who is talking about laws?  Not me.  I'm just suggesting pros and cons 
>> if some decided to use VMS without VSI permission.
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned, VSI should make their product free to 
>> everyone, with commercial use requiring support contract.
>>
>> Ask Red Hat what they think of such a thing.
>>
> 
> Red Hat didn't invest a lot of money getting the product
> they started with.
> 
> bill
> 

I do not think that is the real reason. Even Windows has a free 
educational program for OS and compilers.

IMHO the reason why Redhat is a success is that on the one hand hobyist 
get it for free (either as Centos or Fedora (some preview of what Redhat 
may look like in 1 or 2 years) and get a lot of experience with it and 
on the other hand companies think that if you pay for something, it is a 
better product (besides that they have need for support contracts for 
their (critical) systems).
The hobyist using the systems have (some) influence on the choice of 
systems the companies are going to buy. The arguments in the companies 
discussion they get from the nice features they saw in their hobyist 
version.

Jouk