[Info-vax] VAX VMS going forward

[Dave Froble]

On 7/25/2020 1:21 PM, Stephen Hoffman wrote:
> On 2020-07-25 14:57:56 +0000, Jan-Erik Sderholm said:
>
>> Den 2020-07-25 kl. 15:53, skrev Scott Dorsey:
>>> But VSI has no rights to any of the Vax distributions.  They did not
>>> purchase that from HP.  HP continues to own it, but has no interest
>>> in it.
>>
>> That is not what Robert Brooks wrote some days ago:
>>
>> "...we *do* have the rights (and the VAX master pack, including the
>> Emerald builds) to produce a VSI version of OpenVMS VAX. We have
>> chosen not to do that...".
>>
>> I read that as that VSI has as much "rights" to the VAX sources as as
>> they have had all then time to the Alpha sources. But on general
>> request that *did* chose to build a "VSI Alpha" kit. I guess there
>> simply is no business case to build a "VSI VAX" kit.
>
> VSI has no rights to any of the existing VAX distributions.
>
> VSI has the rights to create new VAX distributions.

I really should have made this distinction in an earlier post.  I'm sure 
there might be some who misunderstood.

> Both of these statements can be true.
>
> Both are true.
>
> Here?
>
> HPE can either decide to issue permanent PAKs for hobbyists for the
> (only!) existing OpenVMS VAX releases, or not.

Would be optimal.

> Or VSI can backtrack and can create a 32-bit distribution for hobbyist
> hardware and license it at minimal or no cost, and contend with the
> associated cost.

When Bob Wilson posted up thread, I made an  assumption.  Should have 
learned long ago to not do that.  I assumed he did not work for VSI. 
Possibly I'm wrong.

With the assumption, I assumed here was a knowledgeable person who maybe 
could build a new VAX/VMS distribution, and if VSI would endorse it, be 
legal.  If he does work for VSI, then we're back to "NO VAX DISTRIBUTION".

I guess the question I keep going back to, is there a reason VSI does 
not want a new version to exist?  If that is not an issue, then why not 
let some volunteers do so?

> Or VSI can purchase the rights to one or more of the existing HPE
> OpenVMS VAX distributions, and offer that at minimal or no cost, and
> contend with support costs.

I see no reason for VSI to spend one cent on such.

What support costs?

> And if reanimating the corpse, VSI then gets to chase all the other
> issues with OpenVMS VAX, not the least of which involves an
> already-ancient IP stack.

Why?  Just because they let hobbyists play with an old product doesn't 
mean they have to provide any support.  Or new stuff.

> One of these options is slightly more likely than the others, and it's
> not the VSI options.

I'd agree.

> Not unless some VAX customer surfaces and offers VSI cash 💵💵💵 in
> volumes sufficient to distract VSI from their other priorities.

Doubt such exists.

> In the absence of a hobbyist OpenVMS VAX PAK past 2021, OpenVMS VAX
> hobbyists can either buy HPE licenses, or, well, not.
>
> A fair chunk of the current level of interest in hobbyist OpenVMS VAX is
> probably based on the costs and the availability of free emulation with
> SIMH and that seems likely to decline with the availability of the
> x86-64 port, too.

Some.  How much?  Unknown.

> At some point in the next decade or three, VSI may (probably will)
> decide to drop Alpha and Itanium support, too. This probably not until
> after the OpenVMS port to Arm or RISC-V concludes, of course.

Forgetting about emulators, which should become much less popular after 
x86 VMS is available, there won't be too many Alphas still runable.  The 
sooner the itanic settles on the ocean floor, the better.

> And these old-architecture licensing discussions will replay among the
> hobbyists, for those still around then to remember. Among those of us
> whose brains have not then become mush.
>
>

Maybe, and maybe not.  With x86 VMS runable in a VM, anyone with an x86 
that has the proper support can then run VMS, as a hobby, or otherwise.

-- 
David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450
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