[Info-vax] OpenVMS Hobbyist Notification

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Den 2020-03-10 kl. 00:50, skrev Arne Vajhøj:
> On 3/9/2020 2:20 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
>> On 3/8/2020 8:56 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 3/8/2020 7:38 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>                                  But to declare that using VMs is sort
>>>> of automatic is premature and just a prejudiced wild ass guess.
>>>
>>> Anything related to the future has some uncertainty.
>>>
>>> But it is way more than a wild guess.
>>>
>>> Because other platforms has had the capability for many years. And
>>> other platforms has adopted the technology.
>>
>> Wasn't one of the drivers for VMs the one app one system in non-VMS 
>> land?  That is not so significant for VMS users.
> 
> There are more tradition in the VMS world for running multiple
> apps on same system than on *nix/Win.
> 
> But most companies run more OS than just VMS and would
> benefit from virtualization.
> 
> And even VMS can benefit from having an extra test system.
> 
>>> Most with more than 1 server are using virtualization.
>>
>> Ok, maybe I'm an aberration.  Not one of our customers is using more than 
>> one system to run the company operations.  PCs on the desktop for office 
>> automation and user interface, yes.  But actually running the company's 
>> business, no.
> 
> I don't know your customers.
> 
> But I would expect many such companies using VMS to have:
> * the VMS system running core app
> * a Windows system as AD and file & print server
> * a Linux system for web
> 
> And if they buy a 16 core 128 GB server then they could run:
> * one VM with VMS using 2 cores and 16 GB
> * one VM with Windows using 2 cores and 16 GB
> * one VM with Linux using 2 cores and 16 GB
> * one VM for a new test system with VMS using 2 cores and 16 GB
> and still have 8 cores and 64 GB left to allocate to systems
> needing more resources.
> 
> After VMS x86-64 hit the streets!  :-)
> 
> Of course there are still some cases where VM may
> not work.
> 
> Special hardware.
> 
> Insane license policies - like if a company wanting to charge
> by total cores in the physical server instead of cores
> allocated to the VM where the system actually runs.
> 
>>> (75% of companies over 50 employees use virtualization)
>>>
>>> https://www.vmware.com/company/why-choose-vmware.html
>>>
>>> (100% of Forune 500 companies use virtualization)
>>>
>>> Why shoudld VMS be different from all other OS??
>>
>> Well, for one thing, it is.
> 
> :-)
> 
>> Don't misunderstand, since looking at VMs, I really like some of the 
>> things that they can do.  And yes, in some organizations with people 
>> dedicated to such, developing the expertise to manage the VMs can be 
>> helpful.  But if an organization doesn't have that manpower, then having 
>> to have it is an additional cost, and organizations don't like additional 
>> cost.
>>
>> There are non-fortune 500 entities out there ....
> 
> There is definitely going to be a learning curve for the
> old school VMS system manager.

Yes, if he/she also did the HW server management.

No, if he/she only focused on VMS itself. And in a mid to large
IT environment I do not expect the VMS sysadmin to be the server
admin also. And in that case, is it just usual VMS admin, the
"server" might look slightly different, but not that much.

Now, in my customers IT environment, I happens to be the VMS admin,
the Rdb DBA, the server hardware admin, the SAN admin, and so on.
Just because there is no central Alpha Server knowledge. But there
have already been questions about running our Alpha environment
in some VM, just to get rid of the aging Alpha hardware...



> 
> But for the young 0-10 years since college crowd, then they
> will know about VM's if they are in a sys admin role.
> 
> So I am not expecting VMS to achieve 90% virtualization level
> the day after VMS x86-64 ships. It will be a slow process
> taking years. But I believe VMS will eventually end up in state
> similar to other OS.
> 
> Arne
> 
>