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[Arne Vajhøj]

On 11/28/2020 11:50 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 11/28/2020 10:47 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 11/28/2020 10:26 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 11/28/2020 8:49 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>> On 11/28/2020 6:45 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>> On 11/28/2020 3:41 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/28/2020 1:40 PM, Stephen Hoffman wrote:
>>>>>>> I'd use DTLS here for sensitive data, though the available TCP/IP,
>>>>>>> UDP/IP, TLS, and DTLS APIs on OpenVMS are less than friendly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Screw the APIs.  There are sockets at the bottom of any of them.  
>>>>>> Just
>>>>>> forget the top heavy junk and use sockets.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect he wants a higher level API for TCP/IP communication
>>>>> for the same reason you use Basic and not Macro-32. You get more
>>>>> functionality implemented per hour.
>>>>
>>>> Totally disagree.
>>>>
>>>> I've seen some of the stuff needed to use higher level stuff.  Lots
>>>> and lots of coding to meet the requirements.  They are for those who
>>>> don't know how to use sockets, which is rather easy.
>>>>
>>>> YMMV, but, I get done much quicker if I skip all the overhead coding.
>>>
>>> I am not convinced.
>>>
>>> Let me make an example.
>>>
>>> Task getting the page at https://www.google.com/
>>>
>>> In VB.NET you do:
>>>
>>> Dim wc As WebClient =  New WebClient
>>> Dim s As String = wc.DownloadString("https://www.google.com/")
>>>
>>> How many lines does it take to do that using socket API??
>>
>> Non-HTTP require a few more lines, but still not bad - connect
>> to localhost port 12345 and write text:
>>
>>         Using tc As New TcpClient("localhost", 12345)
>>             Using nstm As NetworkStream = tc.GetStream()
>>                 Using sw As New StreamWriter(nstm)
>>                     sw.WriteLine("This is a test")
>>                 End Using
>>             End Using
>>         End Using
> 
> Arne, understand, what you're using has a whole bunch of coding behind 
> that you're not counting.

Of course.

But the point is that the vendor (in this case Microsoft)
has developed it and provide ongoing maintenance. The
companies writing the code does not have to.

>                      Well, I've got a whole bunch of coding that I 
> reuse, so that's pretty much a wash.  Just because I've written it 
> doesn't make it less useful than what someone else has written.  In my 
> mind it's more so.

The difference is that you paid for the development and you pay
for maintenance of your own libraries.

> Nor were we discussing WEENDOZE and VB.  Let's keep it to VMS maybe.

We were discussing that high level API's are missing on VMS.

I showed an example.

I could not use a VMS example for something missing on VMS.

> And one more thing.  My code does things the way I think they should be 
> done, not what someone else thinks should happen.

Yes.

But if somebody else is going to take over maintenance of your
code then it may be much easier to do the handover if it
uses standard libraries not custom libraries.

There must be 10-20 million developers world wide that
knows the WebClient and TcpClient classes.

Arne