[Info-vax] SCSI2SD storage - was: Replacing SCSI disks in PS433AU for VMS
Dave Froble
davef at tsoft-inc.com
Tue Oct 6 10:10:03 EDT 2020
On 10/6/2020 3:02 AM, John H. Reinhardt wrote:
> On 10/6/2020 1:46 AM, John H. Reinhardt wrote:
>> On 10/6/2020 12:13 AM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok, I decided I was getting lazy, so I purchased one of the SCSI2SD
>>> devices. V6 rev 2020a along with a 16 GB SanDisk card.
>>>
>>> Got the device, no documentation. Ok, the fun begins.
>>>
>>
>> Documentation is scarce, but what's available is here:
>> <http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php/SCSI2SD>
>>
>>
>>> First test is in a VAXstation 4000 Model 90. I assumed there would
>>> be a SCSI ID issue, and there was. So I changed the RZ26 ID to 1,
>>> and both devices showed up in SHOW DEVICE at the >>> prompt. What is
>>> interesting is the device showed up as 3.04 GB. I'm assuming the
>>> VAXstation console had a problem with 16 GB.
>>
>> If you haven't run the configuration utility there is some default, I
>> don't remember what it is. I don't believe it auto sizes and it may be
>> around 4GB.
>>
>>>
>>> I found some info, seems there is a configuration utility for
>>> WEENDOZE (I guess) to set SCSI ID and some other things. I've not
>>> yet found info on how to connect the device to a WEENDOZE system.
>>
>
> Sorry, I missed that. There is a Micro-B USB port on the SCSI2SD card.
> You plug a USB cable from whatever system you're running the
> configuration utility on (see below) into that port and the utility then
> programs the card. It also allows your PC/Mac/Linux computer to access
> the SD card via the USB port. It's slow but you can even copy data to
> any given "disk" on the SCSI2SD memory card via the USB port.
>
>> Downloads for firmware updates and configuration utilities are here:
>> <http://www.codesrc.com/files/scsi2sd-v6/latest/>
>>
>> There are configuration utilities for Windows, Mac and Linux. I've
>> only used the Mac utilities.
>>
>>>
>>> I booted the RZ26, VMS V7.2 booted. INITed the SCSI2SD, mounted it,
>>> and it showed up with a bit over 31 million blocks, so that's 16 GB
>>> if I can still do some math.
>>>
>>> I then did an IMAGE backup from the RZ26 to the SCSI2SD, worked fine,
>>> then booted the SCSI2SD device. It's running now, no apparent problems.
>>>
>>
>> I've got a V5 in a MicroVAX 3100 M95 and a V6 in each of two
>> AlphaServer DS10's so far no problems. I have one more V5 for use in
>> my PDP-11 but I'm still putting that system together.
>>
>>> As mentioned above by Chris, perhaps the device will not be reliable
>>> enough for anything serious, but for casual use, why not? If I do an
>>> IMAGE BACKUP to elsewhere every night, I'd guess a restore to a new
>>> SD card would be enough security for the storage. I don't know
>>> anything about the SD cards. I'm hoping reading is not an issue.
>>> Won't be so much writing.
>>>
>>
>> Reliability will depend on what SD card you get. Buy the cheap knock
>> offs and they may die without warning. I've been using the SanDisk
>> "industrial" or "High Endurance" versions designed for security
>> systems or dashboard cams. The industrial have lower capacities
>> because they use more cells for each bit which gives them the higher
>> chance of lasting. The High Endurance have a wear leveling algorithm
>> to spread the writes over different parts of the memory array. My
>> theory with them is that buy one that's larger than what you want and
>> only use part of it allowing the wear leaving to spread writes over
>> the whole memory array, writing fewer times to any one place. So if
>> you want a 16GB disk ( or total combination of disks if you make the
>> SCSI2SD have more than one partition) then buy a 32GB or even 64GB
>> card using only 16GB. Even a 64GB card is only $15 so it's not going
>> to break the bank. This is theory so I'll let you know in a year or
>> so how it works out in my DS10's and MicroVAX.
>>
>> SanDisk Industial MLC 16GB -
>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CV344WJ>
>> SanDisk "High Endurance" 64GB -
>> <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07P3D6Y5B>
>>
>>
>>> Wondering if anyone has any info on the SD cards to make a guess how
>>> much writing they will take before they die?
>>>
>>> So, perhaps a way forward for home/casual/hobbyist use of old VAXs?
>>
>> Or Alphas or PDPs
>>
>>>
>>> My next test will be on an AlphaStation 200 system, and after that an
>>> EV6 system. I'll report here what I find.
>>>
>>
>> Here is the "show device" from the SRM console on one of my DS10's. I
>> have a 64GB card broken up into two 24GB drives and 5 800MB CD sized
>> drives. With the configuration utility you can set several text
>> fields that can help identify things. I set one to SCSI2SD6 for my V6
>> card, the size of the partition and the firmware version.
>>
>>>>> show dev
>> dka100.1.0.17.0 DKA100 FUJITSU MAP3735NC 5608
>> dka200.2.0.17.0 DKA200 FUJITSU MAP3735NC 5608
>> dkb0.0.0.117.0 DKB0 SCSI2SD6 24GB 631
>> dkb100.1.0.117.0 DKB100 SCSI2SD6 24GB 631
>> dkb200.2.0.117.0 DKB200 SCSI2SD6 800MB 631
>> dkb300.3.0.117.0 DKB300 SCSI2SD6 800MB 631
>> dkb400.4.0.117.0 DKB400 SCSI2SD6 800MB 631
>> dkb500.5.0.117.0 DKB500 SCSI2SD6 800MB 631
>> dkb600.6.0.117.0 DKB600 SCSI2SD6 800MB 631
>> dqa0.0.0.13.0 DQA0 PLEXTOR DVDR PX-716A 1.11
>> dva0.0.0.0.0 DVA0
>> ega0.0.0.16.0 EGA0 00-10-18-0C-82-E4
>> egb0.0.0.116.0 EGB0 00-10-18-0C-82-E5
>> ewa0.0.0.9.0 EWA0 00-10-64-30-19-84
>> ewb0.0.0.11.0 EWB0 00-10-64-30-19-85
>> pga0.0.0.3004.0 PGA0 WWN 1000-0000-c943-b66a
>> pgb0.0.0.3005.0 PGB0 WWN 1000-0000-c943-b66b
>> pka0.7.0.17.0 PKA0 SCSI Bus ID 7
>> pkb0.7.0.117.0 PKB0 SCSI Bus ID 7
>>
>>
>
> This article is for Amiga, but a lot of the ideas are the same if you're
> wondering how to do things.
> <https://grimore.org/hardware/amiga/using_scsi2sd_drives>
>
> Here is an article talking about ways to set up partitions on the SD
> card. On my Mac I've used the fdisk utility to create the partitions so
> the SD card looks like a hard drive with 7 partitions of the desired
> sizes. That way when I mount it each partition on the card shows up as
> a separate disk on my Mac and I can dd direct to that partition without
> worrying about telling dd to skip records to get to partitions after the
> first one.
>
> <http://llamamusic.com/s50s550/microSD_Partitioning.html>
>
Thank you John. Looks like I can go back to being lazy, rather than
continue exploring the SCSI2SD capabilities.
The first time I booted VMS on the SCSI2SD it seemed that a more than
usual amount of time was required. I'm guessing that there was not a
proper DISMOUNT and VMS was responding to that. I also figured that 16
GB might take some time for the disk rebuild, I forget what VMS calls it.
I've considered setting up multiple smaller drives on the card, but then
wonder whether I'd be using just a small part of the card, and wear
leveling would not be helpful. A 2 GB card would be overkill for the
current test system, and most likely for any of my other systems. I
don't need increased storage, I need something that works, because the
old disk drives have got to fail, sooner or later.
A question, the SCSI2SD device has a 50 pin SCSI connector. Is that an
issue on your DS10? I'd figure most "newer" (can I say that?) Al[phas
used wide SCSI with 68 pins.
I'm going to get a couple of the recommended industrial/high endurance
cards. The card that came with the device was $4-$5, the cost of
additional cards is not an issue.
I am curious. Assuming that DS10 is a home/hobby system, what data do
you put on it to require all that storage capability?
--
David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef at tsoft-inc.com
DFE Ultralights, Inc.
170 Grimplin Road
Vanderbilt, PA 15486
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