[Info-vax] P400 on DS10/DS15

Tue Oct 6 12:52:09 EDT 2020

On 4/9/2020 7:07 PM, John H. Reinhardt wrote:
> On 4/9/2020 2:49 PM, Rod Regier wrote:
>> These days I'm looking for NOS 73G and above 15K 80pin 3.5 form factor SCSI.
>>
>> Yup - unobtainium :-(
>>
>>                      \\
>>
>> I'm getting close to trialing a SATA SSD solution for RX2600 units w/OVMS boot support (new P410i PCIe controller and PCIX to PCIe adapter plus cabling).  The SATA drives will be deployed in an external enclosure.  I have a bill of materials drafted.  Parts are trickling in for the bench trial.
>>
>> Alas, no Alpha boot support and even to use as a data disk requires 3.3V PCIx buss on DS15 and above.
>>
>> See this thread:
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.os.vms/t7Mu4kEYTrw
>>
> Both the DS10 and the DS15 have the same PCI buss.  From the Technical Summary documents on both, it's a PCI V2.1 compliant bus supporting either %.0V or 3.3V PCI cards.
> 
> But all the PICe to PCI converter boards I see say they are PCI V2.3 compliant so I don't know if they would work with the DS10/15 PCI bus.
> 
> This one is common on Amazon in the US StarTech PCIPEX1 - <https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Slot-Extension/PCI-to-PCI-Express-Adapter-Card~PCI1PEX1>
> 
> Is there any chance a DS10 with V8.4 (HP, not VSI) could boot from a P400 or P800 series SATA HBA?
> 

I think I'm at a final spot for this experiment.

With the ZX6000 logging a CPU failure, I took another tack.  I searched for the cheapest used PC that had a PCI-e slot (and also PCI-X for another project) and found a Compaq 4000 Pro Xeon system.  It recognized the P410 card, but unfortunately wouldn't run ORCA from the card BIOS.  Googling showed that you need an HP Proliant system BIOS to do it.  Frack.  Should have researched better.  So I found the cheapest HP Proliant server  - an ML110.  I found a ML110 G4 that had a combination of two PCI-X and two PCI-E slots so I bought that.  Turns out it's too old. The BIOS also recognizes the P410 but won't run ORCA.  So I Google some more and out the first ML110 to support the P410 Smart Array is a ML110 G7.  Another Ebay purchase and I've got it and it does work!  But it's only got PCI-E slots and it's 4" deeper than the G4 and about 30lbs heavier.  So I go searching again and find the online version of ORCA works with Linux or Windows.  I have an eval copy of Windows server 2019 so I put it on the ML110 G4.  But it's horribly slow.  The G4 is a Pentium D dual core 3Ghz CPU.  Only 1GB of memory so I find a 4GB set and install it.  The HP SSA Raid Utility works (with a god-awful tablet style GUI - on a server O/S  really???) But it works. I can configure the P410 and do everything I need.

To facilitate configuring, I bought an identical ICY Dock SATA chassis for the ML110.  So when configuring I pop the drives out of the chassis in the DS10 and put them in the chassis in the ML110, transfer the P410 Smart Array card to the ML110 and plug in the two SATA cables.  Now it's set up exactly as in the DS10 and the HP SSA Raid configuration tool can create a configuration that works in both.

This setup probably isn't real cost effective but it was an interesting experiment and still cheaper than buying ACARD SCSI-to-SATA adapters at $280 for each drive.  The HP P410's (with a 1GB flash-based write cache) are between $30 and $50 on Ebay so relatively cheap.  The ICY Dock chassis will accommodate either SATA hard drives or SATA SSDs

HP P420 Smart Array cards are also pretty cheap and allow better RAID 5 and RAID 6 performance in addition to being 6GB SATA as compared to the 3GB SATA of the P410.  This is probably only an advantage when doing internal card transfers as the PCI interface would be swamped by even a 3GB transfer speed.  I only plan to mirror the drives in a RAID 1 so I'm not looking too hard at the P420 card.  I have to decide if I will buy a 3rd SSD to make a hot spare if/when one of the main SSD drives fails.  If not, then if a failure happens I would  have to move everything to the ML110 and rebuild there with the replacement drive.  But the SSD may not fail for a long time as I doubt I'll be pushing the TBW rating on it.

The Samsung EVO 860 SSD have been running good for about a month now.  My biggest concern with them is handling of garbage collection and trim on unused space.  I don't think the P410 firmware has much for handling SSD drives in it.  The volumes I've created in OpenVMS have highwater marking turned on as a result of seeing some things mentioned here on C.O.V. about that being the trigger for OpenVMS to do at least some space management with trim.

As it stands now this is the configuration:
   DS10 AlphaServer
   HP P410 Smart Array SATA HBA
   PLX8112 based PCI to PCI-E bridge adapter <https://www.ebay.com/itm/PCI-TO-PCIe-Bridge-Card-CHIPSET-PLX8112/233387975013>
     Also available on Amazon at a higher price but faster delivery. Do NOT get the StarTech. The PCI-E slot on it won't accomodate the P410
          <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZX9B36Y>
   Mini SAS to SATA Cable (SFF-8087 to SATA Forward Breakout) 1.6 Feet (Two needed for all 6 bays. One if you only want 4 drives)
          <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018YHS8BS>
   ICY DOCK ToughArmor MB608SP-B Rugged Full Metal 6 Bay 2.5" SATA HDD & SSD Removable Drive Enclosure
          <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DM2NQNW>
   Samsung SSD 860 EVO 250GB SSD
          <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07864WMK8>

Pros:
     Newer, faster, more reliable SATA or SATA SSD drives
     RAID/Mirror on Smart Array works as fast as disks will allow (3GB SATA speeds)
     Larger capacity drives available

Cons:
     PCI/PCI-e bottleneck limits speed but still as fast as 1990's SCSI allows.
     MSA$UTIL can't configure so have to move drives and controller to another system to configure

Anyone want a cheap Compaq 4000 Pro or HP ML110 G7?

-- 
John H. Reinhardt