[Info-vax] Logging systartup_vms.com progress to operator.log VMS 7.3-2

[Arne Vajhøj]

On 10/16/2020 8:40 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2020-10-15, Arne Vajhøj <arne at vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>> On 10/15/2020 1:49 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>> What happens when something is uninstalled and someone has to remember
>>> to reverse the manual changes ?
>>
>> If somethings gets uninstalled then it need to be removed from
>> where ever the startup was defined.
>>
>> I do not see why removing it from systartup_vms.com
>> should be more difficult than removing it from somewhere
>> else.
> 
> Because the whole point is that you should _not_ be removing it manually.
> 
> What you should be doing is issuing a command to remove something and
> that command is only carried out after dependency checks are performed
> and then an automatic removal is carried out using a predefined sequence
> of steps without any manual involvement required.

You are confusing two independent topics:
* should the startup info be in a database or be a line
   in systartup_vms.com?
* should the startup be removed automatically or manually?

Nothing prevents a deinstall to remove a line from
systartup_vms.com.

But note that I would expect most system managers
to want to remove startup before deinstall.

Disable startup, reboot and wait X weeks to see if
somebody need it before actual deleting it is
good practice IMHO.

>>> Because it's not as simple as it looks.
>>>
>>> That's why every other normal operating system still around (including
>>> Windows) has a proper package manager built into it.
>>
>> What is the package manager for Windows??
>>
>> MSI is not a package manager.
> 
> Windows update and the Windows tools to allow you to install optional
> Windows components. It only applies to Microsoft products, but it's
> still a package manager. Full integrity and dependency checking. Full
> support for automatic detection and downloading of updates. Full support
> for adding component management tools in a standard way. Etc.
> 
> MSI also has many package manager features as it is the Windows version
> of RPM. You can't use it to directly scan for 1000s of applications to
> install but like the raw rpm command, it does much of what the rest of
> a package manager does when it comes to configuring the system to support
> a package and managing dependencies. Also, there's no need to manually
> edit startup files.
> 
> I don't know if you have ever created any MSI install kits, but if you
> have not, you should have a look at what you can do with WiX. You might
> be surprised.
> 
> VMS really needs something with similar functionality to Windows update
> or the Linux equivalents.

MSI is more like PCSI.

MSI tries to install and checks kit and environment and if
prerequisites are not there then it aborts.

So does PCSI.

MSI obviously does not modify startup scripts as Windows does
not use such. It updates a startup database.

But try do a search on how many addon products that exists to help
do a really complete deinstall on Windows.

It is a good example of how not to do it.

Arne