[Info-vax] Any stronger versions of the LMF planned ?, was: Re: LMF Licence Generator Code

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 8/7/21 10:25 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 8/7/2021 7:40 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 8/7/2021 6:42 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>> On 8/7/21 5:56 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 8/7/2021 7:59 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>>>>>                                                       Go read some
>>>>> of the stuff on LinkedIn about "Legacy Systems".  Not specifically
>>>>> about VMS but the attitude is even if it still does the job if it
>>>>> is old (ie. COBOL) it is bad and a problem.
>>>>
>>>> Being old is not a problem in itself.
>>>
>>> Being old is never a problem in itself.  I'm old and regularly
>>> compete with people less than half my age, successfully.
> 
> Wrestling?
> 
> :-)

CrossFit

> 
>>>> It becomes a problem if:
>>>> - it is out of support
>>>
>>> Lack of support for one part of an IS should not be a reason to
>>> abandon it in its entirety.
>>
>> If that part cannot be replaced: yes it is.
> 
> Anything can be replaced.  The required effort may or may not be excessive.
> 
>> And even if that part can be replaced then the question is at what
>> cost compared top the replacement. And it also raises the question
>> about whether other parts will go out of support soon.
> 
> Vs the cost of doing a replacement?
> 
>>>> - it is hard to find people with skills
>>>
>>> That is a fixable problem.
>>>
>>> https://edscoop.com/college-legacy-programming-langauges-grant-bill/
>>
>> That is a good proposal.
>>
>> But do you expect serious companies to base their future on that
>> such a bill get approved, that funding will continue in the future
>> and that students will be interested?
> 
> Students are interested in getting jobs.

Well, not all of them.  Take Philosophy Majors for instance. :-)

But when I was still working students were in fact interested.
It was the faculty who were not.  Their interest is in driving
the bus, not getting the passengers to where they need to be.

> 
> Now, the damn educators who think they know everything, maybe they 
> should not have jobs.

I have always thought the worst professors were those who had
never been anything but students and professors.  Professors
who had held real jobs in their field always seemed better to
me.

> 
>>>> - it does not integrate with newer system that it need to
>>>>    integrate with
>>>
>>> With the exception of Dave's system (I actually know very little
>>> about VMS BASIC) I can think of no legacy system that can not be
>>> integrated into a modern system.  I have had no problems doing web
>>> programming with COBOL.
> 
> Basic is no different than any other language.

Not exactly true.  While modern BASIC has c ome a long way it
will never escape its roots which were not in the IT Production
world.  Like Pascal it was intended to teach concepts and,
believe it or not, one of those concepts was not programming
per se.

> 
>> Anything can be somewhat integrated using various hacks.
>>
>> But good integration will often be either impossible or
>> expensive.
> 
> BULLSHIT !!!!

I agree with this.

> 
>>>> - it is expensive to maintain
>>>
>>> In the case of legacy systems expense is more objective than
>>> subjective.  A little research will show how the majority of
>>> these modernization projects usually run way over budget and
>>> seldom accomplish their original goal.
>>
>> Huge IT projects are in general risky.
>>
>> Migration projects are no exception.
> 
> And if it ain't broke, why fix it?

Or, to be closer to the concept of IT modernization, if only one
part is broken, fix that part but don't re-write the whole thing
in a different language becuase a period was missing.

bill