[Info-vax] Any stronger versions of the LMF planned ?, was: Re: LMF Licence Generator Code

[Dave Froble]

On 8/9/2021 1:48 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2021-08-09, Dave Froble <davef at tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>> On 8/9/2021 8:08 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>> On 2021-08-08, Dave Froble <davef at tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Why should VSI care about VAX?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because of expected trust and honourable behaviour on the part of
>>> the hobbyists if VSI decide to give them free access to what is
>>> otherwise an expensive product.
>>>
>>> Is this concept of honourable behaviour really so hard to understand ?
>>>
>>> Simon.
>>>
>>
>> As I may have mentioned, there is no need for "cheating" as long as VSI
>> exists.  As long as the VSI CL program exists, there is valid usage of
>> VSI releases of VMS.  So it won't happen.
>>
>
> Yes it will if VSI terminate the hobbyist program for some reason or
> restrict its functionality for some reason.

There is, and will not be any such restrictions.  The hobbyist program 
is good for VMS, and what's good for VMS is good for VSI.  There are 
reasons hobbyist programs started, and those reasons continue to be valid.

> Given some of the sense of entitlement we have seen, some people will
> not accept that and look for ways to break the licencing on the existing
> VSI hobbyist kits before this change or retirement was made.
>
>> VSI has no interest in VAX.  So why should they care if some hobbyists
>> do whatever necessary to continue to run VAX/VMS?
>>
>
> You really don't get this honourable behaviour thing do you David ?

I'm thinking that you're going way overboard with it.

> How a person conducts themself in one area can be used as an indicator
> for how they will conduct themself in another area.

I don't know the numbers, but VAX hobbyists are not x86 hobbyists.

VAX hobbyists are people interested in history, what they have used in 
the past, and such.

x86 hobbyists might be more into trying out VMS to see what it can do, 
and perhaps consider it for future commercial use.

> If you feel free to bypass a VAX licence, you are likely to feel free
> to bypass a VSI hobbyist licence if the VSI hobbyist program gets changed
> for some reason.

Logic says that is highly unlikely.  If they were not desirable, they 
would never have been started.

>> Hobbyists enjoying the VSI CL are not hobbyists attempting to continue
>> to run VAX/VMS.  VSI's releases of VMS are NOT the same as VAX/VMS.
>> What is your justification of trying to consider them both the same thing?
>>
>
> I have explained that above.
>
>> But let's address the plight of VAX/VMS and how it might relate to the
>> loss of use of VSI's VMS releases.  Does anyone (other than Simon)
>> expect entities who depend upon VSI's releases of VMS to keep their
>> businesses viable, and the employees who depend upon those businesses
>> for their jobs, just cease to exist if something happened to VSI?
>>
>
> You are moving the discussion away from hobbyist programs and to
> business use.

I was never concerned with the hobbyist program.  I am concerned for my 
customers, and that is where my loyalty lies.

> However, to answer your question: No, I don't expect them to cease to
> exist either. What I expect is for them to have done is to come up with
> plans for how they would handle the failure of a vendor if they start
> doing business with that vendor.

The plan is to do whatever is necessary.

>> Read that last paragraph carefully and then explain what should happen
>> should VSI cease operations.
>>
>
> Careful David, I'm getting told off for considering that possibility. :-)
>
>> Is it "honorable behaviour" to expect businesses to just give up?  If
>> sos, then I do not understand.
>>
>
> What you should have done is before you committed to a vendor was to
> consider what you would do if that vendor goes bust one day.

That thinking might do away with vendors.

> And to their credit, it looks like everyone is doing this. Why do you
> think there is such a strong negative reaction to the time limited
> production licences ?

I'm confident VSI will be listening to paying customers.  Perhaps not so 
much to c.o.v.


-- 
David Froble                       Tel: 724-529-0450
Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc.      E-Mail: davef at tsoft-inc.com
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