[Info-vax] Licenses on VAX/VMS 4.0/4.1 source code listing scans

[Bill Gunshannon]

On 12/10/21 4:56 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
> On 12/10/2021 2:40 PM, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
>> On 12/10/21 12:54 PM, Dave Froble wrote:
>>> On 12/10/2021 10:46 AM, chris wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you are a developer, you should try to walk the walk in terms
>>>> of ethics and try to do the right thing.
>>>
>>> I'd agree 100%.
>>>
>>>> In the real world though,
>>>> people will do whatever needs to be done to find a solution if there
>>>> seems to b an insurmountable obstacle.
>>>
>>> Again, I agree.
>>>
>>>> The other point is, do the original owners really care enough, or
>>>> even at all, when so much licensed software is out there and is
>>>> obsolete and no longer sold ?. Similar case here, where I was trying
>>>> find detail on the write boot block code for early SunOs for historical
>>>> purposes. Found the complete source cd online and was able to complete
>>>> the task. No profit involved, other than keeping some old machines
>>>> alive.
>>>>
>>>> Ethical dilemmas everywhere in life and we all have to make our
>>>> own choices...
>>>
>>> If one is willing to pay for something, but there is no one available 
>>> to pay,
>>> than what?  Either one does without, or, one does whatever is necessary.
>>> While there may be those who feel I should just do without, I do not 
>>> agree
>>> with them.
>>>
>>> Case in point.  We at Consolidated Data insist that all our customers 
>>> have
>>> support for their commercial use VMS systems.  That is our ethics.  
>>> However,
>>> should the time come when there is nobody to pay for such support, 
>>> and the
>>> license terminates, and VMS stops working, then I will bypass the 
>>> licensing to
>>> keep my customer in business.  That is my ethics.
>>>
>>> For those who think we should just let our customers roll over and 
>>> die, I have
>>> only one comment.
>>>
>>> STOP USING MY WHEEL, IT IS NOT FREEWARE, IT IS NOT ABANDONED!
>>>
>>
>> A good businessman would have kept his ear to the ground, heard
>> the oncoming stampede and taken the necessary actions to avoid it.
>> If that means finding a new product, then so be it. But stealing
>> other people's property is never justified.
> 
> We are talking hypothetical here.  I'm not advocating anything today.
> 
> Don't vendors make a commitment to customers when they sell them the use 
> of something like VMS?  

Only what is stated in the contract.  And nothing is implied.

>                          If so, and the vendor defaults, isn't that an 
> issue?  Don't customers have any rights?  

Only what is spelled out in the contract.  We have been told here
numerous times about government commitments affecting this kind
of stuff.  Why did IAS not go to Mentec with the rest of the
PDP-11 stuff?  Because DEC was contractually required to maintain
it (pretty sure for the government).  When those contracts ended
IAS just went away.

>                                              Is it really stealing to 
> continue to use a product that one purchased in good faith?
> 

Beyond the limits of a valid contract, yes.

bill